Joker falling off a building

[Triskelion]

It bears mentioning that falling is mythologically symbolic in the Judeo-Christian zeitgeist. The Fall from Grace and all that. Which may explain why Batman falls on occasion, too, as he struggles with his own inner demons, for ex. confronting the Scarecrow in Batman Begins, the hallucinated swarm of bats overwhelming him....

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfBGECJMhU[/yt]

 

[Dick Whitman]

The best (as in most dramatic) high fall death I've ever seen was performed by Dar Robinson in the Burt Reynolds film Stick. He appears throughout the film as a bad guy, and it's even more shocking when you him fall from a railing screaming, firing all his bullets at Burt, and there's obviously no airbag under him. No blue screen either.

Here's the scene. May be NSFW due to language.



If embed fails: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiKy3ktxw6M

NICE! That was a really creepy performance. But there was a cut away to another camera for another pov of the fall. There probably was 2 different falls edited together. The second one was likely closer to the ground. Very effective scene though.

 

[Christopher]

But there was a cut away to another camera for another pov of the fall. There probably was 2 different falls edited together. The second one was likely closer to the ground. Very effective scene though.

Well, as I said, that stunt got a lot of behind-the-scenes coverage on TV, and my recollection is that they were shooting the stunt with two or more cameras simultaneously so they'd have coverage from different angles -- a common practice with big stunts, explosions, and the like. So the whole thing was a single continuous stunt fall using a descender rig, but naturally they had to cut away from the downward-looking angle in the last seconds, otherwise it would've given away that Robinson was being slowed by the wire and didn't hit the ground.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

FWIW, I took the Dark Knight's scene to be a reference to the original Batman movie scene (hence why it was subverted by having the Joker survive).

That seems profoundly unlikely to me. Falling is such a generic movie-villain death that it's not a distinctive enough similarity to suggest a connection. If it were, say, two scenes of the Joker being shot with a harpoon gun by a trained seal, then that would be distinctive enough that one would probably be an homage to the other. But falling? That's just too commonplace. It's like saying that two scenes of the Joker laughing are referencing each other.

Well, to me, the fact that the Joker didn't fall to his death in The Dark Knight is what made me think it was referencing his original death in Batman. He's falling while laughing and the audience expects he'll die in the same way, but he doesn't. It could be a coincidence, I just think, given the sample size of Batman movie deaths, it's less likely.

 

[Tom]

Alan Rickman's character Hans slo-mo falling to his death in the original Die Hard movie was one of the better falling from a building to his death moments.

 

[Christopher]

Well, to me, the fact that the Joker didn't fall to his death in The Dark Knight is what made me think it was referencing his original death in Batman.

Except that was not, by any definition, "his original death." The Joker had been around as a character for nearly half a century when that movie came out, and had been seemingly killed a number of times before it. Indeed, he was supposed to die at the end of Batman #1 in 1940, but the editor insisted they add a line revealing that he would survive his injuries.

He's falling while laughing and the audience expects he'll die in the same way, but he doesn't. It could be a coincidence, I just think, given the sample size of Batman movie deaths, it's less likely.

The Joker does pretty much everything while laughing. Again, it's not remotely distinctive enough to prove deliberate imitation.

And the sample size of Batman live-action movies is too small to be statistically useful anyway.

 

[Silvercrest]

Christopher wrote:
I think a case can be made that the most prolific killer in cinematic history is the Earth's gravitational field

Do you think anyone will prosecute? I'm pretty sure we have enough evidence for an indictment.

But how could we imprison it? Failing the invention of Cavorite, nothing can block gravity.

I suppose in this metaphor the Earth's gravitational field doesn't represent a criminal, it represents the authorities. Judge, jury, and executioner. "9.8 meters per second per second. It isn't just a good idea ... it's the law."

 

[Greg Cox]

I think a case can be made that the most prolific killer in cinematic history is the Earth's gravitational field.

"Some problems are best disposed of at a great height . . . over water."--James Mason, North By Northwest

(Which, come to think of it, features Martin Landau falling to his death from Mt. Rushmore . . . .)

 

[Melakon]

. . .Dar Robinson. . .Stick. . .

. . .I remember that. I never saw the movie, but the stunt itself was big news. As I recall, it was a pioneering use of the descender system, a wire mechanism that allowed a stunt performer to fall freely until shortly before reaching the ground when they were quickly decelerated. . .

Don't seek out the movie; Robinson's fall is the best thing in it. And you're right, the wire rig was his own patented system he called the "decelerator". He lobbied to play the character throughout the film, just so that the death would be even more of a shock to audiences. Emptying the gun was his idea too.

That stunt alone caused me to start trying to find out who Dar Robinson was, because seeing that film in a theater on release, I thought he was just another actor. The onscreen death without a stuntman cutaway really surprised me.

 

[Christopher]

Don't seek out the movie

I wasn't planning to. Not my kind of film.

That stunt alone caused me to start trying to find out who Dar Robinson was, because seeing that film in a theater on release, I thought he was just another actor. The onscreen death without a stuntman cutaway really surprised me.

I remember Robinson being a pretty famous name at the time, pretty much the highest-profile stuntman in the business for a while. That movie was probably a large part of why. Among other things.

And I guess the term was "decelerator" rather than "descender" as I was calling it. Oops.

 

[Silvercrest]

That's why his name looked so familiar even though I haven't seen most of his movies: the dedications at the end. I watched both Cyclone (don't ask) and Lethal Weapon not that long ago.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Except that was not, by any definition, "his original death." The Joker had been around as a character for nearly half a century when that movie came out, and had been seemingly killed a number of times before it. Indeed, he was supposed to die at the end of Batman #1 in 1940, but the editor insisted they add a line revealing that he would survive his injuries.

Sure. It wasn't even Joker's first appearance in a movie either. However, if there was a reference, it wasn't designed to target the audience of pedantic people, but the general movie-going audience who saw Batman in 1989 and The Dark Knight a few years ago and probably didn't read Batman #1 in 1940.

 

[Christopher]

But the point is there's not enough evidence to suggest it was intended as an homage to that particular movie, because that particular movie's Joker death scene was not unique enough to rule out a coincidental similarity. I'm not trying to be "pedantic," I'm trying to assess the evidence and the probabilities in order to answer the question that was asked of us, i.e. whether the Dark Knight scene was likely to be an homage to the '89 scene. My answer is that it probably wasn't, based on the available evidence. If someone can provide a quote from one of the filmmakers saying they did intend an homage, I'll freely change my conclusion, but based on what information I have available at the moment, I'd call it unlikely.

 

[JarodRussell]

Most bad guys fall to death. The Emperor, Captain Kirk, and

 

[Greg Cox]

But the point is there's not enough evidence to suggest it was intended as an homage to that particular movie, because that particular movie's Joker death scene was not unique enough to rule out a coincidental similarity.

Good point. If the Joker's death in the 1989 flick had been more unusual--like, say, being buried to death under a mountain of bat-guano or dying of an overdose of laughing gas, then we could probably assume it was a deliberate homage if something similar befell the Joker in TDK.

But falling from a building? Not so much.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

My only point was that it was subverted, which made me think it was a reference. Had he died in the same way, I probably wouldn't have thought anything. But the fact that he seemed like he was going to die in the exact same manner but didn't which caused me to think that.

Granted, I thought Two-Faces death in Batman Forever was a reference to the Joker's death as well (because it was Robin's revenge, not Batman's), so maybe I'm just prone to seeing references that aren't there

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Being that this is the Arkham series I don't think it's beyond the pale that this would have been something of an homage. One can see influences from the comics, the animated series, the Burton films and especially in the latest one the Nolan films. Given that the game depicts the Batman's first meeting with the Joker it's quite possible that played in their minds (or not, I just don't think it's inconceivable...). I thought of the movie as well when that happened. Even involved helicopters.

 

[Christopher]

Being that this is the Arkham series I don't think it's beyond the pale that this would have been something of an homage.

Err, what? The question was about whether the movie The Dark Knight was homaging the 1989 Tim Burton film.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I was going off the OP but yeah I guess the discussion skewed more about Dark Knight than the game. Sorry, it's fresh on my mind since I've been playing a lot recently.

 

[The Old Mixer]

like, say, being buried to death under a mountain of bat-guano

Bond reference!