JMS teases Babylon 5 feature film at Comic-Con

[Harvey]

Alternate reality game.

I think blaming a lack of publicity is a bit of a crutch sometimes, but I admit it's hard getting a sense of movie advertising living in Los Angeles, where it is oversaturated to the extreme.

 

[Reverend]

As far as I can tell, 'Serenity' failed because the studio saw it as a risk and didn't promote it. Bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy dontcha think? Sadly a similar thing happened to Dredd.

Hell, over here 'Serenity' got such a limited theatrical release I would have had to go all the way to London to see it. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Firefly fan, but no film is worth going all the way up there!

If they can overcome that and give it some good promotion, a respectable release and maybe an ARG to get the geek fanbase all hyped up, then it should do OK. I mean it's never going to do 'Avatar' money but unless it opens next to some very stiff competition then I'd like to think it can at least turn a profit.

Yeah, the lack of publicity pretty much sunk 'John Carter', too. Hated that.

What's an ARG?

Jan

"Alternate Reality Game." Basically a meta-fiction PR campaing, usually targeted at the grass-roots fandom. It can be anything from the fake in-universe websites, tie-in viral videos (like this or this) and even real world scavenger hunts tied to clues and encrypted messages hidden in said media. Hell, before Portal 2 came out, Valve updated the first game to alter the ending and added hidden messages throught the game hinting at the sequel.

It's the kind of thing that's invisible to the wider audience, but if handled well can set the core audience on fire.

 

[DWF]

As far as I can tell, 'Serenity' failed because the studio saw it as a risk and didn't promote it. Bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy dontcha think? Sadly a similar thing happened to Dredd.

Hell, over here 'Serenity' got such a limited theatrical release I would have had to go all the way to London to see it. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Firefly fan, but no film is worth going all the way up there!

If they can overcome that and give it some good promotion, a respectable release and maybe an ARG to get the geek fanbase all hyped up, then it should do OK. I mean it's never going to do 'Avatar' money but unless it opens next to some very stiff competition then I'd like to think it can at least turn a profit.

Serenity contrary to popular opinion had a huge marketing campaign, this is from the movie's Wiki article.

Hoping to generate buzz through early word of mouth, Universal launched an unprecedented 3-stage campaign to sneak preview the then unfinished movie in 35 US cities where the series had earned high Nielsen ratings. The first stage of screenings was held in 10 cities on May 5, 2005. The second stage, held on May 26, 2005, added 10 more cities and was also the source of controversy when theaters began selling tickets before the official announcement was made, leading some shows to be immediately sold out. The third round, with an additional 15 cities, was held on June 23, 2005. The screenings proved successful, with all three stages selling out in less than 24 hours; the screening in Washington, D.C. sold out in a mere 22 minutes and the screening in Phoenix in only eight minutes.

Several tie-in products were released to promote the film; a novelization was written by Keith R. A. DeCandido and published by Simon & Schuster imprint Pocket Star Books on September 1, 2005. Serenity: The Official Visual Companion was written by Joss Whedon, published by Titan Books, and released on September 1, 2005 in paperback. It contained the film's screenplay, along with other supplemental features such as concept art, film images, and a map of the universe. A role-playing game titled Serenity, published by Margaret Weis Productions, Ltd, was released in 2005. This was followed by Serenity: Out in the Black by Tracy and Laura Hickman.

A three-issue comic book series titled Serenity: Those Left Behind was released from July through September 2005.[44] It was intended to bridge the gap between the end of the television series and the beginning of the film. The comic was written by Joss Whedon and Brett Matthews, illustrated by Will Conrad and Laura Martin, and published by Dark Horse Comics.[45] The story focuses on the crew of Serenity taking a salvage job from Badger following a botched theft on a backwater planet, and the pursuit of River by the ominous blue-gloved men seen in the television series. In March through May 2008, a new Serenity miniseries, titled Serenity: Better Days, was released.

Universal also employed a viral marketing campaign, producing five short videos that were released on the internet between August 16, 2005 and September 5, 2005. These short films, known as the "R. Tam sessions", depicted excerpts of counseling sessions with the character River Tam while she was being held at a "learning facility" known only as "The Academy". The counselor in these sessions is played by Joss Whedon himself. Taking place before the events of the film or the television series, the videos shed some light on the experiments and torture "The Academy" conducted on River. They document her transformation from a shy child prodigy to the mentally unstable character of the television series.

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Both Neroon and I saw the early cut on a preview, I caught the movie again on opening day and it far from a packed theater, in fact a couple of people walked out of the movie.

 

[Jan]

Serenity contrary to popular opinion had a huge marketing campaign, this is from the movie's Wiki article.

That was always my impression, too - though it may have been different in various regions/countries. I was sure they'd done everything right to ensure success with both existing and to attract new fans.

Jan

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'd rather that the money were used to render cinematic visions of a universe other than the B5 one, whose story potential is pretty much exhausted and past its sell-by date -- Bank's Culture or non-Culture, Niven's Known Space or Motie space, Hamilton's Commonwealth, Confederation, or Mandel trilogy, Baxter's XeeLee Sequence, Manifold trilogy, NASA trilogy, Long Earth series, or Destiny's Children series, Herbert's Dune saga (the father's vision only, done properly for once although the style of the Lynch film was pretty good apart from the ornis) or WorShip series -- the choices are multitudinous.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If Natalie Portman wanted to play Delenn in a remake, shit would get real.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Funny headgear and weird accent -- I think she already did that gig.

 

[Reverend]

I'd rather that the money were used to render cinematic visions of a universe other than the B5 one, whose story potential is pretty much exhausted and past its sell-by date -- Bank's Culture or non-Culture, Niven's Known Space or Motie space, Hamilton's Commonwealth, Confederation, or Mandel trilogy, Baxter's XeeLee Sequence, Manifold trilogy, NASA trilogy, Long Earth series, or Destiny's Children series, Herbert's Dune saga (the father's vision only, done properly for once although the style of the Lynch film was pretty good apart from the ornis) or WorShip series -- the choices are multitudinous.

Nice idea, but I don't think JMS owns the movie rights to any of those...and nobody else owns the movie rights to Babylon 5....

Serenity contrary to popular opinion had a huge marketing campaign, this is from the movie's Wiki article.

That was always my impression, too - though it may have been different in various regions/countries. I was sure they'd done everything right to ensure success with both existing and to attract new fans.

Jan

Maybe they just didn't bother over here. The only promotion I saw (besides what was on the internet) was a TV spot that I only ever saw crop up once and as I said, nothing at the local cinema. I don't think even the nearby-ish multiplexes had it.

Not sure why it didn't do well in the states. Maybe the trailers just didn't grab the attention of the uninitiated? Did it open next to something else that blew it out of the water?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Yeah, JMS doesn't have the rights to those properties. Some might be cheaper to acquire than others, however, and have more commercial potential -- although sci-fi movies seemingly aren't in vogue unless they're based on well-established comics, feature angsty teenagers in derivative plots, or star Tom Cruise or Will Smith (maybe not the case any longer).

Re Serenity's box office in the US -- perhaps people disliked the apparent goofiness of a cowboys-in-space theme. I don't know how it was marketed there.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ I agree with you. I really don't think that B5 is suited to the movie market, especially in the current climate. I think something like Lost Tales is more appropriate. LT wasn't that successful, either commercially or artistically, but I think it could be (especially given growing markets like Netflix and Amazon Prime). And apparently JMS's B5 Rights do include that type of format.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Babylon 5: The Olympics.

No terrorists, no bomb, actually barely any script. Get a hundred actors in Alien make compete against each other in sports while camera crews follow them around and then flavoured with interesting commentary.

Oh, gods. Imagine the figure skating Narns.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Vorlon beach volleyball!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Babylon 5: To Serve Narn.

40 years ago a popular "TV Show" shown across the Centauri empire showed how to butcher and prepare Narn cattle into positively scrumptious fine dining... This is the story of the Rangers tasked with hunting down everyone involved with that programming and taking them in chains to Minbar, to face trial for crimes against decency.

 

[Jan]

^^ I agree with you. I really don't think that B5 is suited to the movie market, especially in the current climate. I think something like Lost Tales is more appropriate. LT wasn't that successful, either commercially or artistically, but I think it could be (especially given growing markets like Netflix and Amazon Prime). And apparently JMS's B5 Rights do include that type of format.

Not that we know of. In fact, considering that direct-to-home-video (of any sort) had barely even been thought of at the time his contract was written, I'd say that there's almost no possibility that he owns anything other than what he's stated - the feature film rights. Anything else he's done, such as the short stories, he's had to get permission from WB.

Jan

 

[Guy Gardener]

Jinxo and the Last Crusade.

Desecrate the #### out of Indian Jones and the last Crusade, then wait for the lawsuit.

 

[mos6507]

I'd rather that the money were used to render cinematic visions of a universe other than the B5 one, whose story potential is pretty much exhausted and past its sell-by date -- Bank's Culture or non-Culture, Niven's Known Space or Motie space, Hamilton's Commonwealth, Confederation, or Mandel trilogy, Baxter's XeeLee Sequence, Manifold trilogy, NASA trilogy, Long Earth series, or Destiny's Children series, Herbert's Dune saga (the father's vision only, done properly for once although the style of the Lynch film was pretty good apart from the ornis) or WorShip series -- the choices are multitudinous.

JMS was working on a Lensman adaptation which is still in development-hell. I'd like to see him finish that instead, although people will only associate it with things that used it for inspiration, like Green Lantern.

 

[Reverend]

^^ I agree with you. I really don't think that B5 is suited to the movie market, especially in the current climate. I think something like Lost Tales is more appropriate. LT wasn't that successful, either commercially or artistically, but I think it could be (especially given growing markets like Netflix and Amazon Prime). And apparently JMS's B5 Rights do include that type of format.

Where did you get that idea? AFAIK he's always said he was only able to retain the movie rights and nothing else. That streaming series that almost was from a few years back was commissioned under a licence granted by WB.

He can't just up and do whatever he feels like for anything that isn't a movie.

Now while I think there has been a few straight to streaming movies, they're really no different in quality and budget than straight-to-DVD/TV films. Not the kind of thing to convince investors that Studio JMS is setting out to be another 'Bad Robot' style production company.

 

[Jan]

JMS was working on a Lensman adaptation which is still in development-hell. I'd like to see him finish that instead, although people will only associate it with things that used it for inspiration, like Green Lantern.

He wrote it long ago, 2008-2009. It's entirely out of his hands now. The script is pretty much the first thing done. After a director comes on, rewrites usually follow. But everything JMS can do has already been done.

ETA: Just realized you might have meant that JMS should option the rights and make the Lensman movie himself. He'd have to write a whole new script unless he bought the one already written back. And right or wrong, the ones who commissioned the script in the first place seem to have decided that there's not enough name recognition in a Lensman film to warrant the money needed. JMS doesn't seem to agree with that but it's a major consideration when looking for investors that another major company (Ron Howard's companyIIRC) has passed on.

Jan

 

[RJDiogenes]

40 years ago a popular "TV Show" shown across the Centauri empire showed how to butcher and prepare Narn cattle into positively scrumptious fine dining... This is the story of the Rangers tasked with hunting down everyone involved with that programming and taking them in chains to Minbar, to face trial for crimes against decency.

Actually, something like that would not be a bad idea.

Not that we know of. In fact, considering that direct-to-home-video (of any sort) had barely even been thought of at the time his contract was written, I'd say that there's almost no possibility that he owns anything other than what he's stated - the feature film rights. Anything else he's done, such as the short stories, he's had to get permission from WB.

Ah, I didn't realize that. They even have control over publishing. I wonder if he could challenge streaming rights in court. I know (or think I know) that some work-for-hire comic book writers have successfully challenged contracts that didn't mention undreamed-of-at-the-time situations, such as TV shows and movies.

Where did you get that idea?

Apparently I just made it up.

Now while I think there has been a few straight to streaming movies, they're really no different in quality and budget than straight-to-DVD/TV films. Not the kind of thing to convince investors that Studio JMS is setting out to be another 'Bad Robot' style production company.

I don't know. These streaming markets are in their infancy, but they're probably the cable of the future. And pretty much whatever good stuff there is today is happening on cable.

 

[Reverend]

Ah, I didn't realize that. They even have control over publishing. I wonder if he could challenge streaming rights in court. I know (or think I know) that some work-for-hire comic book writers have successfully challenged contracts that didn't mention undreamed-of-at-the-time situations, such as TV shows and movies.

I think it'd be a tough and most likely futile fight. If they own the TV broadcast rights then it's not too much of a stretch to argue that this extends to broadcasting on the net as a derivative medium.

Given that the source material is a TV show and not a comic book, I'd think the terms and definitions in the contracts would be much more specific. As in they've *only* granted him movie rights and everything thing else defaults to them in perpetuity.

I suppose the best evidence to support this is that JMS would have said so if he had the streaming rights, or at least a snowball's chance in hell of getting them. He hasn't, therefore he almost certainly can't.

Again, a movie is his only avenue to make more B5.

I don't know. These streaming markets are in their infancy, but they're probably the cable of the future. And pretty much whatever good stuff there is today is happening on cable.

I don't disagree, but realistically investors don't usually like to gamble nine figures on new, unproven markets. As you say, it's still in it's infancy and it could still all come crashing down.

That aside, since it's mostly a subscription model there just isn't anywhere near the same potential audience size you'd get compared to a theatrical release and that's what really matters for such a venture to be profitable.

More to the point, a straight to stream/DVD/TV movie is not going to get WB's attention anywhere near as effectivly as a successful theatrical release.