JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Together

[jaime]

Also, Bad Robot is a movie/TV production company that was hired by Paramount to make movies, I doubt that Abrams gave any thought to toys and tchotchkes, since there was no way his company would be making any money off of them, that all goes right to CBS. The only hint of truth in that "merchandising" rumor is that perhaps Bad Robot wanted to be hired to make a multi-media Star Trek project but were told "no".

That's about right. Books were cancelled, the comics went on OK, and had bad robot involvement I think, the game bombed despite not being that bad. (it's biggest sin is being out star trekked by mass effect)

Though the JJ Treks are a separate license to prime trek. The Mmo is only allowed to reference the parts of the film and tie in comic that refer to the prime universe, and the starships collection had to pay for a separate license for the ships, hence them being released as double sized but double priced special editions.
The comics seem to be literally the only place where the two universes are shared as a license, and thereby allow crossovers.

It's almost like Paramount is a licensee of CBS, and they had to keep knocking out movies to keep that license, granted by their historical production of Trek.
They don't even have the license control to pre 2009 movies, they are under CBS.

 

[jaime]

Also, Bad Robot is a movie/TV production company that was hired by Paramount to make movies, I doubt that Abrams gave any thought to toys and tchotchkes, since there was no way his company would be making any money off of them, that all goes right to CBS. The only hint of truth in that "merchandising" rumor is that perhaps Bad Robot wanted to be hired to make a multi-media Star Trek project but were told "no".

I would also say there were some pretty strong rumoured conversations that imply jj wanted to can the whole prime universe, and existing licensees werent happy with that, and that CBS in particular refused to stop selling shatner based merchandise in favour of pine. At which point the whole thing fell apart.

 

[fireproof78]

I would also say there were some pretty strong rumoured conversations that imply jj wanted to can the whole prime universe, and existing licensees werent happy with that, and that CBS in particular refused to stop selling shatner based merchandise in favour of pine. At which point the whole thing fell apart.

Rumor is all. Despite many claims, there has been little, save for an unsourced article that has been overstretched as fuel for the fire that Abrams "hates Prime Trek." Unfortunately, there is no way to prove or disprove otherwise.

As drt point out, Abrams was hired to direct a film, not head a media empire. In fact, despite his love of Star Wars, he isn't sticking around there either after TFA. Regardless of what Abrams wanted (and people always want more) he wasn't in charge of merchandising, so laying that failure at his feet seems a bit overblown, in my opinion.

 

[Griffeytrek]

I would also say there were some pretty strong rumoured conversations that imply jj wanted to can the whole prime universe, and existing licensees werent happy with that, and that CBS in particular refused to stop selling shatner based merchandise in favour of pine. At which point the whole thing fell apart.

It may not have been JJ per se. It may have been a combined effort. Studio's have this tendency in modern times to want to come in, do a clean sweep and start over. And often that will include some weird slash and burn approaches to earlier stuff. They want the public focused on th enew stuff. So some marketing twits insist they make the old disapear. Thankfully more and more are starting to recognize the synergy that exists between the old and new. But I don't think the team at Paramount, including JJ did at the initial 2009 reboot. I think they started to figure it out a bit by Into Darkness. But sadly by then they weren't getting as many nibbles from the licensee's.

 

[jaime]

Rumor is all. Despite many claims, there has been little, save for an unsourced article that has been overstretched as fuel for the fire that Abrams "hates Prime Trek." Unfortunately, there is no way to prove or disprove otherwise.

As drt point out, Abrams was hired to direct a film, not head a media empire. In fact, despite his love of Star Wars, he isn't sticking around there either after TFA. Regardless of what Abrams wanted (and people always want more) he wasn't in charge of merchandising, so laying that failure at his feet seems a bit overblown, in my opinion.

Am not laying that failure at his feet, however I would point out that Star Wars is not a Bad Robot film.

 

[jaime]

It may not have been JJ per se. It may have been a combined effort. Studio's have this tendency in modern times to want to come in, do a clean sweep and start over. And often that will include some weird slash and burn approaches to earlier stuff. They want the public focused on th enew stuff. So some marketing twits insist they make the old disapear. Thankfully more and more are starting to recognize the synergy that exists between the old and new. But I don't think the team at Paramount, including JJ did at the initial 2009 reboot. I think they started to figure it out a bit by Into Darkness. But sadly by then they weren't getting as many nibbles from the licensee's.

Yeah....you can't have a 50th anniversary after a year zero approach.
Amusingly, Star trek magazine had a sort of yearly special recently, every captain on the cover...except the reboot thingy was represented by Khan.

 

[fireproof78]

Am not laying that failure at his feet, however I would point out that Star Wars is not a Bad Robot film.

Fair enough though I don't think that impacts the merchandising one way or the other. The job is still make a movie.

 

[eyeresist]

Well, here in the UK we have these things called 'pound shops' and that's where the JJ trek action figures could be found...the last time I saw such 'big name's action figures in there was 'sarah Jane adventures' action figures just after woolworths went under.
They are a tad more expensive now via Amazon, but they are still cheaper than star wars figures and that has a movie out right now.

I suspect Star Wars (like Barbie) has a deal that doesn't allow surplus stock to be "remaindered" (sold off to bargain buyers), in order to retain the appearance of quality. But appearance is all it is; it's a PR decision.

 

[Raymond Pritchett]

I find the criticism fair. In my opinion the way ABC/Disney has spawned the Marvel model has exposed how Star Trek has so much potential, and yet no real leadership or vision.

 

[Drone]

Trek's failure to be as big as Star Wars probably stems from its failure to market to young boys as effectively. They love action, aliens, and cool ships. IMO they need to capitalise on JJ's movies with an animated show with an over-arching theme like the Klingon war. Introduce a gang of multi-racial mercenaries with cool ships. Maybe insert some flashier combat vessels alongside your shuttles, and introduce some wider, semi-regular crewmen based on some of the funkier alien races. Rip off the Clone Wars basically. If they treat the franchise with respect and give us decent stories, Trek might capture some of that elusive SW teenage toy market that they love so much.

If the franchise hasn't been treated with respect up till now with the 3 movies (I'll include it as there doesn't seem to be any reason to be surprised), what earthly (or celestial) reason should anyone have that trend will be reversed with the introduction of multi-racial mercenaries and "funky" alien races? I don't see an even further departure as you describe it taking place in an animated series, having the possibility of being linked to the franchise any more than the films are, that is to say hormonally enhanced action templates that just happen to have the name affixed to it, instead of something like Space Fighters, Earth Troopers, or perhaps more appropriately, Dung from Outer Space. Feel free to make it a kid's show if the last bogus vestigial connections to the franchise are severed. By all means!!!!

 

[jaime]

If the franchise hasn't been treated with respect up till now with the 3 movies (I'll include it as there doesn't seem to be any reason to be surprised), what earthly (or celestial) reason should anyone have that trend will be reversed with the introduction of multi-racial mercenaries and "funky" alien races? I don't see an even further departure as you describe it taking place in an animated series, having the possibility of being linked to the franchise any more than the films are, that is to say hormonally enhanced action templates that just happen to have the name affixed to it, instead of something like Space Fighters, Earth Troopers, or perhaps more appropriately, Dung from Outer Space. Feel free to make it a kid's show if the last bogus vestigial connections to the franchise are severed. By all means!!!!

I sort of agree with this. Sort of

I would say though that Trek needs to stay just the right side of 'dark and gritty' and remain mostly suitable for children. Which is something the last two films didn't do, and is not the same as being made for children. Us older fans sometimes forget that many of us came to the show as children, and that should be retained. (something even doctor who has started to forget of late)

 

[jaime]

I suspect Star Wars (like Barbie) has a deal that doesn't allow surplus stock to be "remaindered" (sold off to bargain buyers), in order to retain the appearance of quality. But appearance is all it is; it's a PR decision.

Possibly now, but historically it hasn't, that much I am sure of. (Even jar jar ended up in some pound shops) And I am nor sure even that would prevent some things slipping over when shops close down etc.

 

[eyeresist]

multi-racial mercenaries and "funky" alien races? I don't see an even further departure as you describe it taking place in an animated series, having the possibility of being linked to the franchise any more than the films are, that is to say hormonally enhanced action templates that just happen to have the name affixed to it, instead of something like Space Fighters, Earth Troopers, or perhaps more appropriately, Dung from Outer Space. Feel free to make it a kid's show if the last bogus vestigial connections to the franchise are severed. By all means!!!!

You forgot one: !

I think you are overreacting a bit. Remember that the main TV forebear of TOS was Space Patrol. Also remember the semi-canonical animated series. Space adventure for all ages, with a bit of a message: isn't that Star Trek?

 

[jaime]

You forgot one: !

I think you are overreacting a bit. Remember that the main TV forebear of TOS was Space Patrol. Also remember the semi-canonical animated series. Space adventure for all ages, with a bit of a message: isn't that Star Trek?

Kids should be able to watch it, the adults get their bit from the story dialogue and characters. These days though, it's not adult unless it has at least one shocking evisceration, and the 'splosions aren't for the little kids so much as the big kids. And instead of a variety of characters that kids might find 'cool' for various reasons (an android! Dude that can see through walls! Um...Riker the intelligent action hero! Big bad Worf!) but who were also grown up people, instead we get James Kirk by way of James Dean and Marlon Brando. There's a place for that kind of angst teen appeal, but by itself it can get hollow. I am still waiting for Vulcan Twilight, surprised we didn't have Spock and Uhura in that kind of poster already.

 

[Pauln6]

Remember that the main TV forebear of TOS was Space Patrol. Also remember the semi-canonical animated series. Space adventure for all ages, with a bit of a message: isn't that Star Trek?

Yup, and not all cartoons need to be childish, even if made for children. The strength will be in the writing and as long as the writers tick enough boxes for their demographic, there's no reason they can't give it a more adult tone. I loved Batman the Animated Series from the nineties and Mask of the Phantasm was probably the best out of the nineties movies in terms of storytelling. Even so, I confess I have a double standard. I can forgive cartoons for being more childish than I can the movies. The Thunderbirds cartoon was a step in the right direction for that franchise more so than the slapstick movie was. IMO. I haven't seen Rebels yet.

Of course, if the movie and TV rights sit with separate companies, we won't be getting a NuTrek cartoon I guess and a TOS cartoon could cause a great deal of confusion. So any cartoon is going to be set with a different crew, which I think would dilute the franchise more.

 

[Amaris]

Kids should be able to watch it, the adults get their bit from the story dialogue and characters. These days though, it's not adult unless it has at least one shocking evisceration, and the 'splosions aren't for the little kids so much as the big kids. And instead of a variety of characters that kids might find 'cool' for various reasons (an android! Dude that can see through walls! Um...Riker the intelligent action hero! Big bad Worf!) but who were also grown up people, we get James Kirk by way of James Dean and Marlon Brando. There's a place for that kind of angst teen appeal, but by itself it can get hollow. I am still waiting for Vulcan Twilight, surprised we didn't have Spock and Uhura in that kind of poster already.

What are you even talking about?

 

[jaime]

What are you even talking about?

Same thing as everyone else. Hence replying.

 

[SpaceLama]

Re: JJ Abrams Was Kinda Right About Trek Needing To Get Its Act Togeth

Fairly sure that Star Trek - notwithstanding Gene's self revising history - was always produced with profit being the first and foremost concern. It ain't a charity documentary.

I hear this all the time, but isn't it obvious that a drama (a form of art) also has other priorities? Clearly people in the 60s wouldnt have crafted such a beloved show, if that was all they cared about - they would have picked yet another police show or something.

 

[Amaris]

Same thing as everyone else. Hence replying.

No, I mean, none of what was posted makes sense. What evisceration? When was Star Trek for kids? Kids watched it, but when was it for kids? Star Trek has always featured, in some form, sex, violence, political intrigue, and romance. Are you talking about a Star Trek no one saw? New films that no one saw? If you want to talk explosions and "evisceration", don't look to the new movies, what did you think of Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan from 1982? You know, the movie that fans prize and adore, and wasn't made in this century? Remember where Khan murdered the Regula 1 crew? Where the Ceti eels oozed out of Chekov's ear, the same Ceti eel that had Captain Terrell try to murder our heroes until he was vaporized? Where Spock is exposed to high levels of radiation trying to save the crew, and we see him badly burned, flesh peeling from his face, as he tries to say goodbye to his friend one final time before he dies?

What about Star Trek III where McCoy is put in an insane asylum? Where a science vessel is blown to smithereens, killing all hands except our protagonists? Where Kirk, the hero, steals a Federation starship? Where Spock experiences the blood madness of Pon Farr and Saavik essentially has sex with him to cool his engines? Where Kirk's young son, David, is stabbed in the back, murdered by Klingons? Where Kirk and Kruge fight to the death and Kruge is kicked into a river of lava, being incinerated in the process?

Star Trek V where we see a three breasted woman dancing on a table top while three ambassadors discuss politics in a bar, sitting in a city that is taken over by terrorists who threaten their deaths if they don't get a starship? The cult leader flies them to the center of the galaxy where they meet God and promptly attempt to kill him after he tortures them like they were playthings? The discussion of life, the universe, philosophy, and what it means to really believe?

Star Trek VI! Holy shit! Kirk is okay with genocide! Racism and bigotry all through the film! The Chancellor of the High Council murdered, blood spattering everywhere! McCoy trying to save him, beating him in the chest, across his bloody wound as they're arrested and put on trial! Scotty calling Azetbur, the daughter of the Klingon Chancellor a bitch and stated that she must have killed her father! McCoy and Kirk sent to a gulag and forced to work the mines under threat of death! Kirk getting into a fight with a giant creature, whom he defeats by kicking it in the proverbial balls! Kirk kissing Martia passionately having known her such a short time. They escape, and in the process uncover a plot to assassinate the leaders at the peace conference. Martia, or the alien playing her, is vaporized before our eyes! Scotty shoots an assassin before he can murder the Federation President! The assassin crashes through the window, landing on the ground, and blood oozes from him as they rip away his face, which turns out to be a mask, but let's not pretend a kid will know that right away.

Star Trek First Contact. Borg, bullets and blood. We watch as crewmembers are torn apart, their arms severed, their eyes gouged to allow for cybernetic implants. Their captain, the hero, even shoots one of them instead of tries to rescue them. The other hero, the visionary inventor they all adore, ends up being a drunk, womanizing, profit seeker looking to cash in, not to better humanity. Data and the Borg Queen discuss having sex, including a "was it good for you" moment.

Star Trek Insurrection, where we see bad guys having their faces stretched to keep them alive. Where they attack villagers in a peaceful settlement, later we find there's a blood feud taking place here. How is Admiral Dougherty murdered? He's put in a flesh stretching machine, and his face is split apart, and we see it happen.

Star Trek Nemesis, where we see the entire Romulan council reduced to ash in mere seconds, where we see the Enterprise crew firing on a pre-warp civilization while riding a dune buggy. Where a clone of Picard mind rapes Counselor Troi! The clone then tries to use Thalaron radiation to wipe out the people of earth! The clone then, after fighting Picard, impales himself on a support strut and pulls himself all the way up to Picard's face, where he then dies.

What. Movies. Were. You. Watching?

 

[Amaris]

I hear this all the time, but isn't it obvious that a drama (a form of art) also has other priorities? Clearly people in the 60s wouldnt have crafted such a beloved show, if that was all they cared about - they would have picked yet another police show or something.

No. A drama exists to make money. A comedy exists to make money. The same goes for every other form of entertainment we see, because the whole idea is to be liked enough to bring in money. If it wasn't about money, there wouldn't be commercials. You wouldn't pay outrageous prices for DVD sets. Every extra re-re-re-release of a film wouldn't cost you more money to buy. It is all about money, especially Star Trek, because Gene took every opportunity to cash in. Don't believe me? Ask Alexander Courage.