• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Jihad

Control Voice

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Red Shirt
I have always wondered if the events of this animated episode was in actuality a Section 31 mission. It has all the trappings.
 
No, it doesn't. It has no links to Section 31 whatsoever, except that something vaguely conspiratorial was going on. It was masterminded by that bird-prince (can't remember either his name or the name of his species off the top of my head), to restore his race's lost glory or something like that.
That was the Skorr side of the story. The "operation" that sees Kirk and Spock join this team is set up by the Vedala.

If you have a hankering for Sec 31 intrigue (I don't) you might see the wheels within wheels on either side of the plot.
 
Not to mention diametrically opposed to the spirit of Star Trek; a pox on whoever created this murderous organization.

Nah. In a universe where the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order exist, Section 31 is necessary and logical. Makes no sense to depict the Federation can stand toe to toe with these other empires while lacking the same components.

The pox should be on whomever thought Section 31 should be constantly depicted as villainous an ham fisted.

Plenty of need for an in universe counterpart to today's FBI, CIA, NSA, etc
 
Plenty of need for an in universe counterpart to today's FBI, CIA, NSA, etc

There already IS such an organization. It's called Starfleet Intelligence.

As much as one might disapprove of what the FBI/CIA/NSA do, at least they are legitimate organizations which must justify their budgets, follow the law, and answer to the President.

Same story here. There is no need for Section 31; if Starfleet Intelligence can't do it, it doesn't deserve to get done. It's as simple as that.
 
Nah. In a universe where the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order exist, Section 31 is necessary and logical. Makes no sense to depict the Federation can stand toe to toe with these other empires while lacking the same components.

The pox should be on whomever thought Section 31 should be constantly depicted as villainous an ham fisted.

Plenty of need for an in universe counterpart to today's FBI, CIA, NSA, etc

The point of Star Trek's Federation is that humanity truly has improved (not perfect...yet, but far beyond our present state of affairs); having Space KGB be a vital part of an honestly enlightened society is grotesquely absurd. It's a middle finger to all those accomplishments and has been used as such by detractors of Gene Roddenberry's future. Remember: no matter what you've contributed in the pursuit of furthering harmony, it ultimately took blood on a dagger to keep it all together.

No thanks.
 
There already IS such an organization. It's called Starfleet Intelligence.

As much as one might disapprove of what the FBI/CIA/NSA do, at least they are legitimate organizations which must justify their budgets, follow the law, and answer to the President.

Same story here. There is no need for Section 31; if Starfleet Intelligence can't do it, it doesn't deserve to get done. It's as simple as that.
Need? Of course there's no need for it, but it show cases that some times humanity reacts negatively to external threats. It's not such a far reach when you have various captains and admirals who engage in illegal or unethical behavior, or conspiracies. It wouldn't surprise me that people like Cartwright, wouldn't utilize assets from Starfleet Intelligence or Federation Security to try and combat problems any number of ways in order to facilitate their own sense of security. Fear makes for strange reactions, and the spirit of cooperation that had the foundation of the Federation and mutual trust to solve problems isn't going to make everyone happy.

Section 31 is an unsurprising aspect when considering all the various factors and threats facing the Federation. It isn't a matter of need; it's a matter of reaction. It's not a good thing and isn't treated as such. But that doesn't make inappropriate in Trek's dramatic storytelling.
 
The point of Star Trek's Federation is that humanity truly has improved (not perfect...yet, but far beyond our present state of affairs); having Space KGB be a vital part of an honestly enlightened society is grotesquely absurd

The Federation can stand toe to toe with Cardassian, Romulan, Klingon ships because there is a balance of power. The nations are all basically balanced technologically.

Similarly, how can the Federation go toe to toe with other powers if they lack a balance of power in regards intelligence organizations or clandestine operatives?

There already IS such an organization. It's called Starfleet Intelligence.

Oh nice point. Sloan could have been written as a bad egg in Starfleet Intelligence or that his particular division had gone rogue.

Instead they cooked up an entire official government agency that is always depicted as crooked. And they have their own ships with cloaking devices.

About as dumb as always depicting the Duras family as villians despite the series or fictional era depicted.
 
If one must really drag Section 31 into the story of "Jihad," they'd be more likely to try to figure out how to get their hands on Vedala technology and what to do with it. And then, the elder race catches wind of the theft and gets suitably annoyed. (see also Forgotten History by Christopher L. Bennett.)
 
Instead they cooked up an entire official government agency that is always depicted as crooked. And they have their own ships with cloaking devices.
In DS9 it was so secret that neither the audience or the characters are certain if it exists or if it is the delusions of one guy. I especially love (no, don't love) that S31 is "part of the Federation charter". The... secret not written down part? That's certainly a contradiction in terms, isn't it?

Other shows went in a different direction.

Oh. And I hate Section 31. So keep it out of Jihad. And TAS. And Star Trek.
 
Instead they cooked up an entire official government agency that is always depicted as crooked. And they have their own ships with cloaking devices.
The intent in DS9 was that Section 31 was an illegal criminal conspiracy, not a legitimate government agency. STID and Disco were the ones who treated them like a legitimate agency.
I especially love (no, don't love) that S31 is "part of the Federation charter". The... secret not written down part? That's certainly a contradiction in terms, isn't it?
The idea is the organization uses an interpretation of the thirty-first section of the charter to justify and rationalize their actions and existence. Think of it as something similar to a bunch of gun nuts in the US forming a club named Second Amendment.
 
The intent in DS9 was that Section 31 was an illegal criminal conspiracy, not a legitimate government agency. STID and Disco were the ones who treated them like a legitimate agency.

Nah, I think that ship sailed in DS9. Multiple appearances on both DS9 and ENT. ENT even establishes that it's been there since the beginning.

It's established in DS9 "Inquisition" that Section 31 is in the Federation charter.

SLOAN: We don't submit reports or ask for approval for specific operations, if that's what you mean. We're an autonomous department.
BASHIR: Authorised by whom?
SLOAN: Section thirty one was part of the original Starfleet charter.
BASHIR: But that was two hundred years ago. Are you telling me you've been working on your own ever since? Without specific orders? Accountable to nobody but yourselves?
SLOAN: You make it sound so ominous.
 
That is one reason - among many - as to why I do not consider Deep Dish Nine real Star Trek.
 
Nah, I think that ship sailed in DS9. Multiple appearances on both DS9 and ENT. ENT even establishes that it's been there since the beginning.

It's established in DS9 "Inquisition" that Section 31 is in the Federation charter.

SLOAN: We don't submit reports or ask for approval for specific operations, if that's what you mean. We're an autonomous department.
BASHIR: Authorised by whom?
SLOAN: Section thirty one was part of the original Starfleet charter.
BASHIR: But that was two hundred years ago. Are you telling me you've been working on your own ever since? Without specific orders? Accountable to nobody but yourselves?
SLOAN: You make it sound so ominous.
Indeed. There is hints and such to Section 31 as both official and unofficial. And yes, I agree with many that if Starfleet Intelligence can't accomplish it then it shouldn't be done. But that's not the dramatic purpose of S31. It's there to reflect the tendency that humanity has that in the face of dangerous threats any means necessary becomes a path forward. Deep Space Nine really explored that in an interesting way, reflecting that as much as humans want to move forward, to grow and become better, there are still aspects of survival that seems to appear in humanity regardless of day, age or technological development.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top