Jedi Temple and Sith Shrine

[Reverend]

I'd hardly call a huge order with dominion over a whole planet and two moons, deposited there by giant mysterious ships of unknown origin to be "a humble beginning". There was very little substantive difference between the Je'daii and the Jedi we're familiar with was largely cosmetic.

Anyway, according to the version of events presented in the TPM novelization (presumed to be straight from Lucas) the Sith breakaway was a relatively recent thing, compared to the founding of the Old Republic. More current material like 'Rebels' appears to have pushed it back a little, but no more than the 4 or 5 thousand years that it also was in the EU. either way, the Sith did not predate the Old Republic.

Also there's very little evidence to suggest the Order itself was directly involved in the Republic's founding. It's mostly an assumption based on them being there more or less from the beginning. For all we know they could have existed long before the Old Republic began to form around the core worlds, or they came into being centuries after it's founding and only later adopted as it's guardians.

Maybe in that ancient time there were many such orders or force worshipping knights in the galaxy, one or more of which already pledged to serve the fledgling Republic. The likes of the Guardians of the Whills could just be a fraction of what once was and then only a pale shadow of what they once were.

Again, I don't see why it's so difficult to grasp that these sites are places where the force is naturally strong. It would make sense that over time various religions and orders might occupy, abandon and rediscover such sites many times over the millennia. We know the Sith once ruled the galaxy and it stands to reason they did so from Coruscant until their infighting finally wiped them (almost) all of them out. We even know the temple was sacked when the Old Republic fell. It stands to reason than when the Jedi returned the sealed away the chambers and shrines the Sith had built, believing the darkness to have been neutralised. Then subsequent generations built over them in return, until they were eventually consigned to history and forgotten.

 

[Prax]

So, Dawn of the Jedi was the name I couldn't remember. I didn't realize there was a comic series too(which actually predates the novel) but the origins are monks from different worlds(who cant space travel) picked up by Filoni's "Force gods" and brought to Tython to learn about the Force. I had listened a few chapters of the audiobook of the novel a couple years ago. It was about a girl traveling around a world as a "ranger." she carried an actual sword and was investigating...something. Have the origins changed? Because the "Force gods" originate in TCW and have now shown up in Rebels.

The Shrine:
If the schism was more recent, then the there couldn't be a "Sith shrine" that predates the Jedi building a temple on coruscant that only the Sith are aware of. I actually like the idea of Filoni and Lucas that the temple was built upon an older temple that was built by a group like the Jed'aii. An order where there is no "light" and "dark" dichotomy.

And yes, the temple site was chosen because of "mountain strong with force." it was built up over time to eventually cover the mountain, and by the time of the movies, the temple as we know it, was already ancient.

Are you bothered that some people don't like this idea? As much as I love many of James Luceno's books, he very often writes the Jedi to be hypocrites, ignorant, arrogant, etc.

So now, the Sith ruled on Coruscant and the Jedi came later and built their temple atop this Sith temple, it was quickly forgotten, and for the next 5,000 years the "dark side" energy clouded the Jedi's vision. After looking at the Wiki, I read that Luceno likened it to how the Spaniards tore down the temples at Tenochtitlan where all the grizzly human sacrificial rituals were taking place, and built up their administrative center atop the ruins, including a beautiful church. (This became Mexico City, the largest or most populated and most polluted city in the world)

They did stuff like this in the old continuity and the new- Making it so the Jedi were always hypocrites, oblivious to their much more sophisticated enemies. I guess they're just inclined to be both arrogant and ignorant.

I suppose it must be true then. "The Jedi must end."

 

[Ithekro]

I seem to recall something about the Jedi eventually moving their main temple to Coruscant after one of their wars with the Sith, building the new large temple on the ruins of the Sith shrine that had been put there during the say decade or century that the Sith took over the planet as a result of the previous war that nearly ended the Republic. It is entirely possible that there have been a succession of temples and shrines on Coruscant over the millennia, but the records keep getting destroyed by the next owner of the planet, thus the origins and other factors get lost and become legends at best.

The Sith or at least a Dark Side using group could have been in operation since the discovery of the Force, or the discovery of hyperspace making galactic scale travel possible, rather than potentially much lower speed local interstellar travel ship. There are legends upon legends in Star Wars. Some contradict each other, and other could just be variations on the same tale. Or because knowledge is lost, a new origin could happen because the old Order is lost, but the names are remembered in legends and reused.

 

[Reverend]

I seem to recall something about the Jedi eventually moving their main temple to Coruscant after one of their wars with the Sith, building the new large temple on the ruins of the Sith shrine that had been put there during the say decade or century that the Sith took over the planet as a result of the previous war that nearly ended the Republic.

No "nearly" about it. The Old Republic fell and the Sith Empires (yes, plural!) ruled the galaxy for quite some time (accounts vary.)

Anyway, yeah that bit about the Jedi moving to Coruscant was the case in the old EU, more or less, though it doesn't appear to have been the case in canon. As per the Darksaber's backstory, the Coruscant temple predated the fall of the Old Republic and the Sith conquest of the galaxy.

It's also worth keeping in mind that even in the Clone Wars the Jedi had more than one temple at a time and it's possible that at their pinnacle they weren't as centralised on Coruscant. It could just have been one of a great many, none more or less important than the other. The temple on Lothal seems to have been abandoned long before the purge, possibly as far back as the Sith wars.

It is entirely possible that there have been a succession of temples and shrines on Coruscant over the millennia, but the records keep getting destroyed by the next owner of the planet, thus the origins and other factors get lost and become legends at best.

I don't think the loss need be that dramatic. There's an upper limit to how much information one can have access to and it still be useful and relevant. It's possible all the information required is right there in the Jedi temple's library, the Old Republic central records databank down on level 950 (yes, I just made that up) and encoded on ancient spools of crystal wire (which I also just made up) sitting on a rack in the deep archives of the University of Alderaan...it's just that nobody has bothered to look it up in so long, everyone forgot it was even there.

You'd be surprised how much damage mere entropy can do to record keeping. Over the course of millennia, things just get lost and forgotten. Data-drive formats could change to the point where the really old ones that weren't already transcribed can no longer be read. Files could be written in proprietary programming language that it rendered unreadable when the species that owns it is wiped out in a super-nova.
Items get mislabelled, misfiled or misplaced. Indexing systems change; sometimes by increments sometimes because some ambitious new curator droid thinks it has a much more efficient and comprehensive system that didn't depend on one knowing the old High Tythonian alphabet...but has a system crash two centuries into it's reorganising project and 12% of the archives are effectively wiped off the index and nobody ever finds the time to identify and re-index those seven trillion datafiles.

 

[Ithekro]

Most records in the current canon are in the two thousand years ago range at best, but the deep files and digs along with some of the Jedi core concepts place things going back a thousand generations. While while that could vary greatly depending on the species involved, the general feel of the galaxy would assume that means human generations. So 25,000 - 35,000 years ago (the founding of the original Core Worlds region Republic would be around that time, but that would be the Old Republic.

 

[Tuskin38]

the Aphra comics went into some ancient Jedi/Sith stuff.

Some of it came from legends.