Jedi powers

[Temis the Vorta]

One thing I never understood was why Jedi can't use their TK to fly.

Probably just because it would look silly. Why it would look sillier than anything else they do is another matter. I suspect the breaking point for Jedi powers is anything too obviously associated with a comic book superhero. Flying = Superman, so that's out.

But I don't see why Jedi couldn't walk through walls. That seems within the scope of what Jedi powers should be able to do and it isn't associated with any particularly famous superhero.

Teleportation is another one, but I'm not so much in favor of that for Jedi. Not sure why, just don't like it. Too strongly associated with Star Trek?

 

[Mr Light]

Walking through walls? You mean like Kitty Pryde? That seems a little far fetched as a Force power.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

- The power to ignore obvious threats right in front of your face: Force-Blindness.
- The power to claim the moral high ground while using cloned slaves with shortened lifespans as cannon fodder and manipulating weak-minded people to do your bidding: Force-Hypocrisy.
- The power to unknowingly use an absolute to criticize a group for being the only ones to deal in absolutes: Force-Ignorance.
- The power to think that intentionally bringing all of your warriors into the middle of an arena ringed with bad guys is a good battle tactic: Force-Custer.
- The power to be endlessly condescending, to frequently lie to in order to manipulate, and to be openly fearful of your trainees: Force-Douchebaggery.
- The power to think it's healthy to tell someone they shouldn't worry or be sad about the death of the people they love: Force-Sociopathy.

 

[aelius]

- The power to ignore obvious threats right in front of your face: Force-Blindness.
- The power to claim the moral high ground while using cloned slaves with shortened lifespans as cannon fodder and manipulating weak-minded people to do your bidding: Force-Hypocrisy.
- The power to unknowingly use an absolute to criticize a group for being the only ones to deal in absolutes: Force-Ignorance.
- The power to think that intentionally bringing all of your warriors into the middle of an arena ringed with bad guys is a good battle tactic: Force-Custer.
- The power to be endlessly condescending, to frequently lie to in order to manipulate, and to be openly fearful of your trainees: Force-Douchebaggery.
- The power to think it's healthy to tell someone they shouldn't worry or be sad about the death of the people they love: Force-Sociopathy.

Bwaahhhhhhaaaaahhhhhaaaaa!!!!!
I couldn't have said it better myself. (so I quote you instead)
My hats off to you sir.

 

[Silvercrest]

One thing I never understood was why Jedi can't use their TK to fly.

Probably just because it would look silly. Why it would look sillier than anything else they do is another matter. I suspect the breaking point for Jedi powers is anything too obviously associated with a comic book superhero. Flying = Superman, so that's out.

Maybe actual flight isn't practical. When they use TK on objects, how fast do the objects typically move? Particularly large objects? If Force flight is slower than a person can walk, it's simpler to walk. Also, you're pretty vulnerable if someone takes a potshot at you, buzzes you with their skyhopper, or does anything that will break your concentration.

It might be that Jedi can fly if they want to-- they just don't want to.



Edit: Of course, having posted all that, it now occurs to me that if what I said was true, Luke could have (and should have) levitated out of harm's way in the Rancor's chamber, in the bowels of Cloud City, and probably other times. I take it back.

 

[Checkmate]

Maybe actual flight isn't practical. When they use TK on objects, how fast do the objects typically move? Particularly large objects? If Force flight is slower than a person can walk, it's simpler to walk. Also, you're pretty vulnerable if someone takes a potshot at you, buzzes you with their skyhopper, or does anything that will break your concentration.

It might be that Jedi can fly if they want to-- they just don't want to.



Edit: Of course, having posted all that, it now occurs to me that if what I said was true, Luke could have (and should have) levitated out of harm's way in the Rancor's chamber, in the bowels of Cloud City, and probably other times. I take it back.

Don't forget Mace Windu. "What, I could easily levitate myself to prevent me from dying from this tragic fall? Aww hell nah, fuck that. I might get potshot. Better to just die a horrible and messy death."

 

[Jono]

Weak Telepathy (communication of emotions only)

That reminds me - is there any canon take on how Leia realized Luke was in danger at the end of ESB? Would Luke have been able to communicate with anyone who wasn't a Force sensitive, or did he just wildly luck out that there was one in range who would bother to save him?

I think she's force sensitive would be the canon take on it.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The power of the Jedi to instill hostility in me is directly proportional to the number onscreen. The more I saw of the Jedi in the PT, the more insufferable they became and the more I cheered when they got their arses kicked.

 

[Gepard]

- The power to ignore obvious threats right in front of your face: Force-Blindness.
- The power to claim the moral high ground while using cloned slaves with shortened lifespans as cannon fodder and manipulating weak-minded people to do your bidding: Force-Hypocrisy.
- The power to unknowingly use an absolute to criticize a group for being the only ones to deal in absolutes: Force-Ignorance.
- The power to think that intentionally bringing all of your warriors into the middle of an arena ringed with bad guys is a good battle tactic: Force-Custer.
- The power to be endlessly condescending, to frequently lie to in order to manipulate, and to be openly fearful of your trainees: Force-Douchebaggery.
- The power to think it's healthy to tell someone they shouldn't worry or be sad about the death of the people they love: Force-Sociopathy.

I remember I used to think the Jedi were cool. so, yeah.

 

[Silvercrest]

Don't forget Mace Windu. "What, I could easily levitate myself to prevent me from dying from this tragic fall? Aww hell nah, fuck that. I might get potshot. Better to just die a horrible and messy death."

I didn't cite Mace because he would have been falling too fast to stop himself. (Even if everything else I wrote passed the consistency test, which it doesn't.)

 

[Temis the Vorta]

- The power to ignore obvious threats right in front of your face: Force-Blindness.
- The power to claim the moral high ground while using cloned slaves with shortened lifespans as cannon fodder and manipulating weak-minded people to do your bidding: Force-Hypocrisy.
- The power to unknowingly use an absolute to criticize a group for being the only ones to deal in absolutes: Force-Ignorance.
- The power to think that intentionally bringing all of your warriors into the middle of an arena ringed with bad guys is a good battle tactic: Force-Custer.
- The power to be endlessly condescending, to frequently lie to in order to manipulate, and to be openly fearful of your trainees: Force-Douchebaggery.
- The power to think it's healthy to tell someone they shouldn't worry or be sad about the death of the people they love: Force-Sociopathy.

Too and shay!

It's too bad that Lucas didn't make better use of all this wonderful material to depict the Jedi as a very flawed bunch, but trying to do the best that they could under circumstances made impossible by the contradictions in their existence.

The Jedi are a self-appointed cabal of religious warriors whose (unavoidable) elitism is a slap at the concept of liberal democracy, yet they are supposedly safeguarding liberal democracy. The more they increase their power and numbers, the more the universe wants to regain balance in the Force by creating Sith to counteract them, yet the Jedi just can't seem to stop themselves from struggling and fighting against the Sith. (And don't bother telling me how Lucas botched up the logic of the Force; my point here, this would be good material in the hands of a talented writer, with much better potential than just fleeing in terror from your own premise).

The Jedi could be depicted as a tragic bunch who contort themselves into pretzels to try to fit in with the cosmos and with some semblance of decent society, yet are always fated to fail. For instance, I got the impression somehow (is this canon?) that the Jedi celibacy rules stem from a previously disasterous experiment in Jedi social arrangements, allowing Jedi to marry and start families of Force users, which became elite clans that had far more power than is healthy for democracy.

So obviously, that had to end. But taking healthy young people who really have no choice and forcing them to adopt an ascetic, sex-less lifestyle with no emotional attachments outside the Jedi Order itself, was a policy that was also asking for trouble. If it hadn't been Anakin, it would have been somebody else.

Post-ROTJ, I wouldn't blame the revived Republic for prohibiting Jedi altogether or maybe even hunting them down and killing them in infancy. That should make life interesting for Vader's kids.

Handled honestly, there's really no way for the Jedi to co-exist with the Republic in anything but a tenuous relationship that always threatens to blow up in everyone's face. Which is great for creating ongoing drama, so why not go after it whole hog? Sigh. What could have been...

Walking through walls? You mean like Kitty Pryde? That seems a little far fetched as a Force power.

Why? All you'd need to do is arrange your atoms so that they don't "bump into" the wall's atoms. That sounds like something that's well within the faux-physics of how the Force works, no odder than mind control and a lot less odd than being able to see the past, where there isn't even a theoretical basis for knowing how that might be possible.

The power of the Jedi to instill hostility in me is directly proportional to the number onscreen. The more I saw of the Jedi in the PT, the more insufferable they became and the more I cheered when they got their arses kicked.

It was because they were depicted as being insufferable, yet there was no sense that the writer/director was intentionally trying to say, "look at these guys, they're insufferable, it's no wonder that the Sith are going to kick their asses - that's what happens to delusional hypocrites." Instead, we were asked to just accept unquestionably all the contradictions in their existence. A better writer would have made good use of those contradictions to craft a story in which the Jedi were depicted as flawed and tragic, but in an understandable way that wouldn't make us snort in disgust at them.

 

[Mr Light]

Also, he just had his hand(s?) cut off and was half electrocuted to death. So he wasn't really in full command of his abilities.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Got another one: remote viewing. Can the Jedi do that? Or is that the same as clairvoyance, which I always think of as "seeing the future"?

 

[FPAlpha]

One thing I never understood was why Jedi can't use their TK to fly.

Probably just because it would look silly. Why it would look sillier than anything else they do is another matter. I suspect the breaking point for Jedi powers is anything too obviously associated with a comic book superhero. Flying = Superman, so that's out.

Maybe actual flight isn't practical. When they use TK on objects, how fast do the objects typically move? Particularly large objects? If Force flight is slower than a person can walk, it's simpler to walk. Also, you're pretty vulnerable if someone takes a potshot at you, buzzes you with their skyhopper, or does anything that will break your concentration.

It might be that Jedi can fly if they want to-- they just don't want to.



Edit: Of course, having posted all that, it now occurs to me that if what I said was true, Luke could have (and should have) levitated out of harm's way in the Rancor's chamber, in the bowels of Cloud City, and probably other times. I take it back.

Maybe actual flight isn't practical. When they use TK on objects, how fast do the objects typically move? Particularly large objects? If Force flight is slower than a person can walk, it's simpler to walk. Also, you're pretty vulnerable if someone takes a potshot at you, buzzes you with their skyhopper, or does anything that will break your concentration.

It might be that Jedi can fly if they want to-- they just don't want to.



Edit: Of course, having posted all that, it now occurs to me that if what I said was true, Luke could have (and should have) levitated out of harm's way in the Rancor's chamber, in the bowels of Cloud City, and probably other times. I take it back.

Don't forget Mace Windu. "What, I could easily levitate myself to prevent me from dying from this tragic fall? Aww hell nah, fuck that. I might get potshot. Better to just die a horrible and messy death."

Well.. reading the Wiki on Force Powers it is said that Levitation (and by extension Flight) tends to need experience and a great deal of concentration (remember how much concentration even Yoda needed to repel the falling rocks thrown at him by Dooku or how he lifted the X-Wing out of the swamp).

Luke was "just" a new Jedi and was not trained "in depth" since his childhood in the Jedi ways. He just got a crash course in it (well.. a crash course by Yoda almost equals multiple years of study) so it was probably beyond his capablities at that time, especially when you consider having to fight a huge monster barreling down on him.

Mace Windu was fighting a Dark Lord of the Sith and barely defeated him taking its toll on him, then he gets his hand cut off and a full broadside of Force Lightning which probably at least knocked him unconscious but most likely killed him right there.

So in both instances it was impossible to use such a difficult technique.

 

[Galileo7]

Got another one: remote viewing. Can the Jedi do that? Or is that the same as clairvoyance, which I always think of as "seeing the future"?

I think Jedi can sense the disturbances in the Force and other events happening, but I don't think remote viewing ??

 

[Silvercrest]

So in both instances it was impossible to use such a difficult technique.

So if both Luke and Mace get a bye, maybe Jedi can fly... but don't bother to do so because of the difficulty.

 

[FPAlpha]

That's my take on it.. in the time of rapid firing weapons moving through the sky at moderate speeds is a sure way of trying your fate (i doubt they could move as fast as Superman or Neo while in the Matrix).

Having to concentrate this much means also they can't defend that well so i guess Levitation would only be used for crossing a chasm or something when a force-assisted jump wouldn't cut it.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

For instance, I got the impression somehow (is this canon?) that the Jedi celibacy rules stem from a previously disasterous experiment in Jedi social arrangements, allowing Jedi to marry and start families of Force users, which became elite clans that had far more power than is healthy for democracy.

There was a book that went into depth about the Jedi outlawing attachment to avoid having Jedi dynasties I think, but I don't recall which one. Obviously that kind of fell by the wayside once the Jedi were nearly wiped out, but given the good vs. evil track record of the Skywalker clan maybe it's not completely unjustified. Though maybe if Jedi didn't have to suppress or hide their natural emotions and impulses they wouldn't be inclined to turn to the dark side as often.

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

Jedi used to be able to marry and have families, but it seems there have always been factions that were more extreme than others in their avoidance of attachments, and in the last thousand years before the movies, those particular factions seem to have won out over the rest. Unfortunately, it's precisely the Jedi ban on attachments that led to Anakin's fall. If he had been allowed to develop healthy emotional relationships then he wouldn't have been so freaky and obsessed. Luke's New Jedi Order allows attachments because they realize that it's more important for a Jedi to be a good, healthy, emotionally mature person than it is to obsessively conform to established doctrine. (That, and the fact that Luke's Jedi was set up in the EU before Lucas imposed his ban on attachments in 2002.)

 

[fett51]

For instance, I got the impression somehow (is this canon?) that the Jedi celibacy rules stem from a previously disasterous experiment in Jedi social arrangements, allowing Jedi to marry and start families of Force users, which became elite clans that had far more power than is healthy for democracy.

Not that I know of. Moreover, Jedi celibacy isn't canon as far as I know. No attachment certainly doesn't mean no sex. I've always thought the non-attachment stuff comes, well, from having experience with a lot of people like Anakin - attachment can make people stupid, and Jedi have too much power to be acting stupidly. Anakin would not have been accepted for training, and likely would've been kicked out were it not for all the "chosen one" stuff.

The irony to me here is the Jedi hard line against attachment seems to be a reaction out of fear - which Jedi are not supposed to act out of. I suppose it's possible teaching no attachment at all works better than teaching how to handle the negatives of attachment - it works for Buddhist monks at least.

As for the governmental aspect, the Jedi answer to the Senate and the chancellor but are generally allowed to be fairly autonomous. You may remember in Episode 3 Obi-wan being cranky about Palpatine interfering in Jedi affairs as well as appointing Anakin to the Jedi Council - they have the right, they just don't exercise it often.

Got another one: remote viewing. Can the Jedi do that? Or is that the same as clairvoyance, which I always think of as "seeing the future"?

Not really. The closest they get is sensing a disturbance in the force.