Jaylah and Krall Prime Universe

[F. King Daniel]

Some fun speculation. What do you all think happened to Jaylah, Krall, Manas and Kalara in the Prime Universe?

I like to think Jaylah eventually got her "house" flying by herself (the work was almost done when Scotty arrived, it's just her figuring a means of takeoff by herself that's trouble) and escaped back to her homeworld somewhere on the unexplored side of the Necro Cloud.

Krall and his cronies are still bringing down passing ships in 2387. IMO Federation Prime is a little behind technologically and doesn't have Yorktown Starbase or anything more than a little Regula-1 style outpost on their side of the Necro Cloud, so Krall hasn't attacked. He doesn't have the Abronath (it's probably still on Teenax), and so no means to unleash mass destruction (beyond his 250,000 drone ships and robot soldiers, of course. But he's saving them for rainy day)

The Federation still think Edison and his crew are heroes, and the USS Franklin is just one of many ships lost during the early years of space exploration (along with the Archon, the Essex, the Valiant etc)

Opinions?

 

[Timo]

Jaylah's family and the other captives had found a way to pilot through the rubble to Altamid; supposedly, Krall would have obtained the means to pilot out of the mess after capturing enough of these advanced adventurers. He wouldn't need to eavesdrop on Yorktown comms to find his way out - those comms just gave him further motivation to do so (plus intel to conduct the attack itself, access to the Abronath etc, all working towards the same end).

So why is Krall not leaving? If it's an "I'm not ready to rule the universe yet" obsession, we have to assume his formerly human companions are fanatics for staying with him rather than saving themselves. Or then factual captives to the madman. But Kalara doesn't try and run when sent outside the cloud. Is that just because she decided Krall was the destined winner now, with his superweapon and superintel? Perhaps she and Manas might have tried to flee in the Prime universe instead. And perhaps they would have used the Franklin, the only ship not hurt in the act of capturing her, in their attempt...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Either Krall and his crew died on Altamid, or it was the Kelvin that took them out.

As for Jaylah? She probably found a way to fix the Franklin and escape. Or she used it to send a distress signal (the only reason this didn't work in the film was Krall's interference).

 

[Romulan Loyalist]

Some fun speculation. What do you all think happened to Jaylah, Krall, Manas and Kalara in the Prime Universe?

Assuming events followed roughly the same time frame in Prime v Kelvin, it would seem to me that the Franklin would have suffered the same fate as in the Kelvin timeline.. The encounter of Krall and Jaylah would have been part of the Enterprise 5 year mission.. We can assume MACO's still disbanded after the Earth Romulan war regardless of timeline... (Although, this would have been at a later time in Prime, because MACO's were still in existence on the NX-01 Enterprise, the first warp 5 ship, so maybe Edison would not have been put in charge of the Franklin at all)... JayLah, we do not even know where she came from, or what species she is.. Whether or not, in Prime timeline, she would have been in the same circumstances at a later time frame, is a variable...

IMO Federation Prime is a little behind technologically and doesn't have Yorktown Starbase or anything more than a little Regula-1 style outpost on their side of the Necro Cloud,

As for the building of Yorktown in the Prime universe, I do not see why it couldn't be done...The entire Prime universe is always misrepresented.. They have hundreds of starbases - and only a couple variants are ever shown. 90's TV series budgets, and seemingly oddly made latter movies don't really populate the Prime universe in an effective way.. Although, looking at Into Darkness, the Moon isn't colonized, and there is literally zero traffic surrounding Earth - a UFP core world. Something I try to remember while watching Kelvin movies, is that they are done almost 20 years after the most recent incarnation of ST Prime, (Nemesis and ENT - although ENT was meant to be less advanced than TOS, when it looked better than TOS, which was awkward but I digress) so effects, and all aspects are more 'modern'. Can you imagine how awful it would look if the entire Kelvin Timeline used canon period accurate bridges and tech? It would be mind-numbing to have modern special effects with the look of the old sets.

Something that should be fixed in the future I would say - making Trek more populated in ambiance. Yorktown style bases could be spread out in many places for all we know - Prime or Kelvin.. Remember, Prime had at least one Dyson Sphere, which is immensely larger than Yorktown.

Just my 2 cents - and my first post.

 

[The Wormhole]

Although, this would have been at a later time in Prime, because MACO's were still in existence on the NX-01 Enterprise, the first warp 5 ship, so maybe Edison would not have been put in charge of the Franklin at all)...

Franklin still pre-dates the NX-01, But Edison wasn't always its captain. Edison wouldn't even be in a position to take command until some point after the Federation was founded, and the MACOs were disbanded. Even then, he'd need two more promotions, he was a Major when MACO was disbanded, which is the same as a Lt. Commander. Although, it's possible he was assigned command of Franklin right away anyway, he'd still be the ship's Captain regardless his actual rank.

Anyway, Edison, a bitter xenophobic warhorse was probably given a starship command due to his leadership qualities, but since he isn't the shining epitome of a Starfleet Captain, he was given an older less prestigious ship. This may have contributed to his feelings toward the Federation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Edison referred to the Franklin as "my old friend". So I doubt he was bitter about the choice of ship that was assigned to him. He had a problem with peacetime in general, not the particular ship that Starfleet gave him.

If Edison could have commanded the Franklin on a military mission, in a time of war, he would have relished the opportunity. He simply couldn't cope with the fact that war was over. I doubt he would have cared one way or the other - whether he'd been given an older ship like the Franklin, or the latest ship of the line, the only thing that mattered to him was war.

 

[The Wormhole]

He can still be fond of his ship in the way Captain's are and still be resentful being assigned it. Take Relics for example where Picard calls the Stargazer trash, but still loved his old ship. Likewise, Edison can still have a captain's pride for his ship and still be bitter over the fact that he's a war hero and he's basically being put out to pasture while Starfleet gives officers who fancy themselves explorers and are so down on soldiers they don't consider themselves military command of the new advanced ships so they can go and make peace with aliens who Edison would rather fight and kill.

 

[Romulan Loyalist]

Franklin still pre-dates the NX-01, But Edison wasn't always its captain. Edison wouldn't even be in a position to take command until some point after the Federation was founded, and the MACOs were disbanded. Even then, he'd need two more promotions, he was a Major when MACO was disbanded, which is the same as a Lt. Commander. Although, it's possible he was assigned command of Franklin right away anyway, he'd still be the ship's Captain regardless his actual rank.

Anyway, Edison, a bitter xenophobic warhorse was probably given a starship command due to his leadership qualities, but since he isn't the shining epitome of a Starfleet Captain, he was given an older less prestigious ship. This may have contributed to his feelings toward the Federation.

It is true that it predates the NX-01, but by how long is interesting... Only available information is pre-2151, and the NX-01 was launched in 2151.. With the war going from 2156-2160 and the UFP founded in 2161, all we know is that the MACO's were absorbed into Starfleet... Guess it would be up to speculation as to when, or how Edison was put in command of the Franklin.. The time frame would be identical right up until 2233, and the USS Kelvin incident.. Forgot about that.. So basically the timeline doesn't change up until after the events of ENT

It is possible also that the Franklin was originally a MACO ship as well - albeit, not much more than a cargo transport, or patrol craft. Perhaps he was just 'stuck' there to keep him out of the way? As for Xenophobes - Admiral Marcus was rather well on his way to being quite xenophobic (at least to me) during STID.

Edison referred to the Franklin as "my old friend". So I doubt he was bitter about the choice of ship that was assigned to him. He had a problem with peacetime in general, not the particular ship that Starfleet gave him.

If Edison could have commanded the Franklin on a military mission, in a time of war, he would have relished the opportunity. He simply couldn't cope with the fact that war was over.

True - It wasn't the ship it was the mission he hated..

He can still be fond of his ship in the way Captain's are and still be resentful being assigned it. Take Relics for example where Picard calls the Stargazer trash, but still loved his old ship. Likewise, Edison can still have a captain's pride for his ship and still be bitter over the fact that he's a war hero and he's basically being put out to pasture while Starfleet gives officers who fancy themselves explorers and are so down on soldiers they don't consider themselves military command of the new advanced ships so they can go and make peace with aliens who Edison would rather fight and kill.

Thus the xenophobe aspect...

I think the basic question from the original post though is if the Krall/JayLah story could fit into the Prime universe.. Easily it could have just been another episode during the 5 year mission in Prime.

 

[Timo]

If we assume there are two universes that are identical until 2233, rather than that there is one universe that splits, we can debate the interesting point of "How identical is identical?".

That is, minor fluctuations might happen, and usually they wouldn't have a major effect. No matter how hard a butterfly flapped its wings, the MACO would be disbanded and the UFP founded and (against real-world odds but with plenty of Trek precedent) Sarek of Vulcan and eventually also George Kirk Sr born exactly as they were. But if enough of 'em blasted bugs did enough of that flapping, might the wormhole into which Edison so ineptly piloted his ship happen to lead to some place other than Altamid?

Regarding the wormhole, in ST:TMP we learn that warp engines themselves are one possible cause for the phenomenon. Perhaps the NX status of the Franklin (in the UFP Starfleet sense, not UESF sense) came from her still being involved in engine testing first and foremost, and this Warp Four veteran was now testing Warp Six engines and spectacularly failing? Making a ship go a hundred times faster than she used to would probably still count as a mission Edison would classify as "pushing the frontier" and being (falsely) upbeat about.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mudd]

I don't believe in the Prime Universe.

 

[fireproof78]

It is true that it predates the NX-01, but by how long is interesting... Only available information is pre-2151, and the NX-01 was launched in 2151.. With the war going from 2156-2160 and the UFP founded in 2161, all we know is that the MACO's were absorbed into Starfleet... Guess it would be up to speculation as to when, or how Edison was put in command of the Franklin.. The time frame would be identical right up until 2233, and the USS Kelvin incident.. Forgot about that.. So basically the timeline doesn't change up until after the events of ENT

It is possible also that the Franklin was originally a MACO ship as well - albeit, not much more than a cargo transport, or patrol craft. Perhaps he was just 'stuck' there to keep him out of the way? As for Xenophobes - Admiral Marcus was rather well on his way to being quite xenophobic (at least to me) during STID.

The Franklin struck me as a in solar system patrol ship, designed to help support Earth's efforts to colonize it's own solar system, while slowing branching out further and further outside the "neighborhood" as it were.

I guess it fits in with my idea of Earth Starfleet starting out like the "Solar Patrol" from Heinlein's "Space Cadet."

 

[Romulan Loyalist]

If we assume there are two universes that are identical until 2233, rather than that there is one universe that splits, we can debate the interesting point of "How identical is identical?".

That is, minor fluctuations might happen, and usually they wouldn't have a major effect. No matter how hard a butterfly flapped its wings, the MACO would be disbanded and the UFP founded and (against real-world odds but with plenty of Trek precedent) Sarek of Vulcan and eventually also George Kirk Sr born exactly as they were. But if enough of 'em blasted bugs did enough of that flapping, might the wormhole into which Edison so ineptly piloted his ship happen to lead to some place other than Altamid?

Regarding the wormhole, in ST:TMP we learn that warp engines themselves are one possible cause for the phenomenon. Perhaps the NX status of the Franklin (in the UFP Starfleet sense, not UESF sense) came from her still being involved in engine testing first and foremost, and this Warp Four veteran was now testing Warp Six engines and spectacularly failing? Making a ship go a hundred times faster than she used to would probably still count as a mission Edison would classify as "pushing the frontier" and being (falsely) upbeat about.

Timo Saloniemi

I suppose that admittedly makes sense - although one of 3 things are at play here..

1. The Kelvin incident caused a split in the original universe - meaning up until 2233 everything was identical because it the same universe until that point. This is the theory everyone seems to use at the moment.. That the Narada/Kelvin incident created an alternate timeline parallel to the Prime. With ST: Discovery being in Prime, I guess that is where canon is going as well.. Although it would be in between Kirk and Archer as far as the timeline goes from what we do know.

2. The Kelvin incident literally altered the future completely and there is no such thing as a Prime universe at all.. The blackhole that sent Nero to the Kelvin, and Spock-Prime as well would have been just like every other rift in space time.. The future is irrevocably changed and everything after Kirk in Prime has ceased to exist. (Side note - this would mean that STO and other works done after Nemesis other than ENT are moot - and void.. Which I wouldn't mind.. STO has overblown so much it is insane that it is considered canon...)

3. It is a different quantum reality (TNG: Parallels) Which would explain radically different ship designs, technological appearance - etc. Remember how things looked much different in this paradox of an episode.. There are unlimited amounts of universes if this theory is used - one that is ST Prime, the Kelvin, the Borg assimilated earth in another, perhaps in another Romulus won the E/R War, the Mirror Universe obviously, and others..

As for the Krall storyline - it is possible that it could have happened in Prime identically as in Kelvin, or being an unstable wormhole with unlimited quantum realities - it could have dumped the Franklin in the Delta Quadrant, or the Gamma Quadrant, or it could have sent it backwards in time to 5000 B.C... It is impossible to say.. The butterfly effect as you explained, would definitely be much larger with a wormhole - as it could have practically done almost anything with that ship. To guess it would have put it exactly on the same planet again is rather hard I suppose to imagine..

I don't believe in the Prime Universe.

Perhaps then you like either point 2 or 3 better than the rest? If this is the case, the TNG must be remade, from scratch.. As well as the rest of the stories.. With Kahn having been altered already drastically - it is possible prime will fade into oblivion and be remade into the kelvin timeline rather than alternate realities.

The Franklin struck me as a in solar system patrol ship, designed to help support Earth's efforts to colonize it's own solar system, while slowing branching out further and further outside the "neighborhood" as it were.

I guess it fits in with my idea of Earth Starfleet starting out like the "Solar Patrol" from Heinlein's "Space Cadet."

Then it wouldn't have needed warp drive for in system use... a waste of resources to give a ship FTL capabilities, if it is never going to leave the system. Remember in TNG - Best of Both Worlds - at impulse speeds they were able to travel from Jupiter to Earth incredibly fast.. So warp drive would be irrelevant and redundant. Maybe instead of a system patrol - it was a 'Core' patrol... Andoria, Vulcan, and other UFP core worlds would have been close enough for Warp 4 to reach comfortably if I remember correctly.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I don't believe in the Prime Universe.

Every time I hear about the Prime Universe, or the Kelvin Universe, this is how I feel:

I just care about whether it's a good story or not.

 

[fireproof78]

Then it wouldn't have needed warp drive for in system use... a waste of resources to give a ship FTL capabilities, if it is never going to leave the system. Remember in TNG - Best of Both Worlds - at impulse speeds they were able to travel from Jupiter to Earth incredibly fast.. So warp drive would be irrelevant and redundant. Maybe instead of a system patrol - it was a 'Core' patrol... Andoria, Vulcan, and other UFP core worlds would have been close enough for Warp 4 to reach comfortably if I remember correctly.

Until it was Retrofitted with a Warp 4 drive to allow it to expand out, possibly in response to the Xindi threat, as well as the Romulan War. It would stand to reason that Starfleet would be experimenting with warp drives of all classes, and updating their ships as the technology became available.

Every time I hear about the Prime Universe, or the Kelvin Universe, this is how I feel:

I just care about whether it's a good story or not.

 

[Timo]

I'd argue insystem warp should have its uses - but it's probably better to just point out that the Trek universe folks themselves argue the same. Warp drive is readily found on support craft to arctic expeditions on Earth, and even aboard insystem mining rigs!

A patrol ship trying to intercept an insystem intruder would certainly prefer the "six minutes to Neptune and back" to the "23 min 14 sec" from somewhere outside Mars to Earth of "BoBW" infamy. A small warp vessel apparently lacking in essential exploration gear such as shuttlecraft but featuring surprisingly potent armaments might well be such a patrol ship. Although why the postwar Starfleet would choose to use this particular vessel for deep space exploration despite her limitations is a bit of a mystery - surely there would be larger warships to spare, say. Which is why I still prefer the warp engine testbed theory to the insystem patrol vessel theory, as it eliminates exploration from Edison's itinenary altogether, and gives him and his ship a job more fitting of their individual quirks.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

STO has overblown so much it is insane that it is considered canon...)

It's not. If it were, the novels would have to follow their events, and the novelverse's version of what happened after Nemesis is completely different.

 

[yenny]

I think the events that took place in Star Trek Beyond in the Kelvin Universe, did took place in the Prime Universe. But involve a different Starship, (probably the USS. Essex), that was sent on that mission and was distroyed, just like the Enterprise was.

 

[Romulan Loyalist]

It's not. If it were, the novels would have to follow their events, and the novelverse's version of what happened after Nemesis is completely different.

Technically it's soft canon - which it admits could change based on future shows or movies. And only movies and series count as Canon though so your right..

 

[CaptainDonovin]

I actually wrote up a synopsis of this with a different ship (a prime universe version of the Kelvin ship w/ the two secondary hulls. Had this happening in 2372, roughly 10 years later than the movie. Even named her species, the Karvassi. The ship was replaced with the same ship class though with the Miranda & Connie refits.

Know it means nothing in offical cannon but I enjoy it, helps keep my gears turning.

 

[Saul]

Soft canon?! Never heard that one before.

I think nobody found Krall and Jaylah. There was no Starbase there and the nebula/asteroid belt hid them until a planet killer came along.