Jar Jar Binks and Anakin Skywalker... am I the only one who understood what George Lucas made?

[fireproof78]

Even Arthur's knights and the king himself were flawed. Very flawed. The combination of characters being "noble" and "romantic" should not be a guarantee that they are ideal or nearly flawless. That's just boring writing. At least to me.

Did I ask for flawless? Pretty sure I didn't.

How? Can you provide a little more in-depth?

First of all, I understand that Anakin has a problem with loss, and that his mom dying is a terrible thing. Without question that's something that requires a person to process through it. However, I don't see his fear, as presented to be sufficient for him becoming the most evil man in the galaxy. And, perhaps that's my problem. He doesn't feel like a person going through some emotional conflict of trying to be good, ultimately choosing evil. It feels like he is tricked in to becoming evil. There's something about it that doesn't come across as occurring organically within the story.

But, I highly doubt that's interesting to anyone. After all, the PT has been dissected enough, right? Maybe I'll go dissect the OT now. I certainly don't like Empire as much as most.

 

[Ithekro]

That is why I felt the Clone Wars (2008) served in showing Anakin's troubles better over the longer run than the movies did. Mainly because they had the time to show his fear and anger over time and what events might lead him to see the Jedi as against his goals and values. Also adds some weight to his reaction to the Jedi Council in Revenge of the Sith due to events with Ahsoka late in the series.

Also I like Anakin and Obi-wan's verbal sparing in the Clone Wars, as you can see they are friends but don't have the same point of view all the time. Add in the arc with Satine and you can see the different course Obi-wan took when presented with the same situation as Anakin with Padme, leading to Obi-wan understanding what Anakin went through, but not being able to get that across to Anakin, thus fueling the anger and festering the future hatred that would be shoved to the forefront when Anakin became Darth Vader.

 

[fireproof78]

I tend to agree. In my opinion, the Clone Wars series and the novels serve as a great vehicle to inform us of Anakin's point of view. It takes through the path of his struggles. And, the parallels with Obi-Wan are made the more interesting by the information we get from the series.

Now, it should go without saying that all of the stuff explored in a TV show can't all get condensed in to a 2 hour film. But, the problem I have, is that there is a lot of simple lines that could have informed the films so much better. I'm not saying the films don't have their moments, because they do. That's the more frustrating part is that there are genuine moments of human connection and emotion in these films that communicate what's going. Unfortunately, they are few and far between.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Jar-Jar - as pointed out by @Alidar Jarok - is supposed to be funny, but isn't. So really he is a waste of a character. The interview with his designer on the Blu-Ray edition of TPM is quite illuminating. She didn't want Jar - Jar to be a "funny" character, but Lucas did and she manages to convey her disappointment and irritation even in a heavily sanitized corporate interview.

Jar Jar was just continuing the path Lucas set down in Return of the Jedi and the Ewoks TV movies, only in TPM, his utter lack of what constitutes humor was not only cranked up to 1000, but injected into Star Wars to take center stage in scenes unlike any other film in the series. It did not help that Lucas was also accused of using racial vocal stereotypes for Jar Jar, Nute Gunray and other Trade Federation characters. But that's what happened when Lucas had complete control, surrounded by grinning yes-men (see the DVD BTS features), and no longer had a Gary Kurtz-like figure to stop his more ridiculous tendencies.

Anakin as a kid was fine. Making him some immaculately conceived child of destiny was a weird choice.

I don't know why--Star Wars has been heavily shaped by borrowed religious ideas from the start, with Luke Skywalker painted as a savior-like figure throughout the original trilogy. That, and by not giving Anakin a physical father, it ended possible obsessive nerd speculation about some Skywalker family line--it begins with Anakin, and there no other Skywalkers.

 

[The Wormhole]

--it begins with Anakin, and there no other Skywalkers.

Not quite. Shmi's last name was still Skywalker, so there is a Skywalker family tree before her. They're just all a bunch of nobodies.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Not quite. Shmi's last name was still Skywalker, so there is a Skywalker family tree before her. They're just all a bunch of nobodies.

I should clarify--no other force-sensitive Skywalkers fans would muddy the waters with wild speculation / fan nonsense. If force sensitive Skywalkers have a "hard start" with Anakin, the line is limited (i.e., no ancient adventures of other force-using Skywalkers), as it should be.

 

[fireproof78]

I should clarify--no other force-sensitive Skywalkers fans would muddy the waters with wild speculation / fan nonsense. If force sensitive Skywalkers have a "hard start" with Anakin, the line is limited (i.e., no ancient adventures of other force-using Skywalkers), as it should be.

Curious as to why that is "as it should be?"

 

[The Wormhole]

I should clarify--no other force-sensitive Skywalkers fans would muddy the waters with wild speculation / fan nonsense. If force sensitive Skywalkers have a "hard start" with Anakin, the line is limited (i.e., no ancient adventures of other force-using Skywalkers), as it should be.

Yeah, I kind of figured that's what you meant. The nitpicker in me couldn't resist, though.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Curious as to why that is "as it should be?"

For the reasons noted in my quote, and if the force sensitve Skywalkers were supposed to be unique in that galaxy, even the possibility of "ancient Skywalkers" ruins that distinction.

With only Anakin and his children (and now a grandchild) being the only members of the line to not only tap into the force but at levels no other being experienced before, they hold that special religous, or quasi-mythical place in the saga, always as the prime movers of history.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Not quite. Shmi's last name was still Skywalker, so there is a Skywalker family tree before her. They're just all a bunch of nobodies.

"Skywalker? Oh yeah, I played football with a Skywalker... he was third string punter...I think he is a grocery manager at Publix now, drives a '98 Corolla with a rebuilt rear bumper. Nice guy."

 

[fireproof78]

For the reasons noted in my quote, and if the force sensitve Skywalkers were supposed to be unique in that galaxy, even the possibility of "ancient Skywalkers" ruins that distinction.

With only Anakin and his children (and now a grandchild) being the only members of the line to not only tap into the force but at levels no other being experienced before, they hold that special religous, or quasi-mythical place in the saga, always as the prime movers of history.

Well, "should be" as very strong implications that any other view is wrong, so I appreciate the clarification.

Also, it's funny that you talk about the Skywalkers in this way because I was recently listening to a podcast commentary with Sam Witwer guess appearing and discussing his perspective on balance to the Force. Sam's contention is that the Force attempts to balance itself but if the dark side grows too strong the Force will create a vergence, starting with Anakin and continuing on with Luke. His contents that Rey is another Skywalker because she is another vergence in response to Snoke's rise to power.

So, I'll be curious to see how it all unfolds.

 

[Set Harth]

surrounded by grinning yes-men (see the DVD BTS features)

As long as we're reading video tea leaves, I thought the idea there was that everybody looked uncomfortable, not exactly in "grinning" mode.

But the whole "yes-men" thing is being treated as though it somehow applies solely to Lucas. Yes men are endemic to corporate culture. You either have the power to stand up to the boss or you don't. Usually you don't. The phenomenon precedes Lucas and will outlive him.

 

[fireproof78]

Would "can't say no men" work better?

 

[Set Harth]

What you call it is irrelevant.

 

[fireproof78]

Probably.

 

[Phoenix219]

I think the entire point of Jar-Jar as a character was to lead up to that scene where, as a Republic senator, he casts the deciding vote to create the clone army - which eventually leads to the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire.

The point is that galaxy-shattering decisions like this can often settle on the shoulders of truly innocent people.

I haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone seen the on line theory that Jar Jar was secretly a Sith Lord? Its actually a pretty awesome idea.

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[publiusr]

Binks sounds like a name a child would have come up with--like Google ( the number)

 

[Phoenix219]

The theory posted above speculates that he was named after a guy named Bink from the Xanth series by Piers Anthony. Apparently, no one thinks he can use magic but it is constantly manifesting itself as weird, dumb luck.... rather like most BINKS scenes in TPM.

 

[The Wormhole]

I thought the name came from Lucas's son, who was three at the time?

 

[LJones41]

I haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone seen the on line theory that Jar Jar was secretly a Sith Lord? Its actually a pretty awesome idea.


Why? Why would that be awesome?


Jar Jar was just continuing the path Lucas set down in Return of the Jedi and the Ewoks TV movies, only in TPM, his utter lack of what constitutes humor was not only cranked up to 1000, but injected into Star Wars to take center stage in scenes unlike any other film in the series.

This all started with C3-P0 and R2-D2. And I can recall despising both characters when I first saw "A New Hope". I thought they were a pair of bores and not that funny. Mind you, my opinion of them had changed over the years. I've never disliked Jar-Jar, but I'm just starting to learn how to tolerate the Ewoks.


Have you read Stover's ROTS novelization?

Yes. I've been trying to forget it ever since. I prefer to watch the movie. There was something about Stover's writing style that did not appeal to me.


First of all, I understand that Anakin has a problem with loss, and that his mom dying is a terrible thing. Without question that's something that requires a person to process through it. However, I don't see his fear, as presented to be sufficient for him becoming the most evil man in the galaxy.

I don't understand this comment. People give in to evil for so many different reasons. Why does there have to be a specific reason for someone to do so? It seems as if you're saying that there are only "specific" reasons why someone would give in to evil.