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Japan hit by 9.0 earthquake.

Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Chiba earthquake didn't cause any tsunami or additional damage, but was still a 6.0 earthquake... I want to get back to my main office so I can check the google earth layer of Earthquakes in the past 24 hours (very useful). Still haven't felt a thing this far south of Tokyo.

We did get some snow this morning (which tells me it's probably a lot colder up north).
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Saul said:
There is white smoke coming from the plant now. We have to wait 4 hours till we are told what this is.
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So, they've elected a new pope then?;)

Seriously though, white smoke should be better than black smoke. If it's cold enough, it might just be steam.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

^ I think I read somewhere that steam is a concern, because it could represent the boiling of water that's serving an important shielding role.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Cicero said:
^ I think I read somewhere that steam is a concern, because it could represent the boiling of water that's serving an important shielding role.
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I understand the steam can be radioactive, but smoke would mean an explosion or fire, so, there's levels of bad.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Seems as though the reactors were only designed to withstand a magnitude 7 earthquake -- that's a factor of 100 less than the one that happened.

Japan warned over nuclear plants WikiLeaks cables show

ETA: The factor of 100 corresponds to the difference in degree of shaking on the moment magnitude scale (MMS) for a different in magnitude of 2.0. The energy released scales as a power of 1.5 above that, so the energy released would have been 1000 times more. However, I don't know if the values being quoted for the magnitude of the quake or the design limit of the reactors are Richter scale or MMS values.
 
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Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Seems to be a lot of non-truths coming out of the Japanese Government to be honest. That was the first time I read the reactors were only built to withstand a 7.0 (from the link it actually said 6.5, but was upgraded a bit I guess). Everything I've read since the quake seemed to indicate they could withstand substantially higher and it was the Tsunami wiping out the back-up generators which led to the main problem (Which may be the truth), but it seems like there is more structural/quake related damage in the plants causing additional problems that is not being accurately detailed by the power company.

The 7.0 number is interesting because I believe that's the standard that some US nuclear plants in Cali are built to as well.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

I think that this is a heart-warming story

Akiko Kosaka, a student from Japan attending the University of California at Riverside, had lost all hope for her family in Minami Sanriku, the fishing village where more than half of the 17,000 residents are missing and feared dead in the aftermath of last week's tsunami. For three days, she scoured the Internet. She received one e-mail that her youngest sister, Yukako, 13, was likely safe in her middle school's shelter. But what about her parents, paternal grandparents and older sister, who all lived under the same roof?
When the mayor was quoted in the media as saying he barely survived the tsunami, Kosaka thought the worst, because her father's pharmacy was located near the town hall.
"I didn't think they survived," Kosaka, 20, told CNN during a tearful interview Tuesday. "I cried for three days -- Friday, Saturday, Sunday."
Then she received word Sunday night from a friend in Japan of the existence of a 45-second YouTube video showing her family home as the only one standing amid the rubble. The video highlighted her older sister holding a sign to a TV news crew saying in Japanese "we are all safe."
Kosaka expressed relief upon hearing of the video, but became distraught after she couldn't find it online, despite staying up all night looking for it.
Then a contact through a Japanese social network e-mailed her the link Monday morning.
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Rest of the story, and an interview with the young woman, here
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

FreezeC77 said:
Seems to be a lot of non-truths coming out of the Japanese Government to be honest. That was the first time I read the reactors were only built to withstand a 7.0 (from the link it actually said 6.5, but was upgraded a bit I guess). Everything I've read since the quake seemed to indicate they could withstand substantially higher and it was the Tsunami wiping out the back-up generators which led to the main problem (Which may be the truth), but it seems like there is more structural/quake related damage in the plants causing additional problems that is not being accurately detailed by the power company.

The 7.0 number is interesting because I believe that's the standard that some US nuclear plants in Cali are built to as well.
Click to expand...

Some other random dude associated with the nuclear industry quoted magnitude 8.2 as the standard upper design limit for Japanese reactors. While that might be true for more modern reactors, the ones at Fukushima are mostly 30 to 40-years old. No-one has mentioned the planning for hardening against tsunamis taking out significant elements of the defence in depth precautions.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Ar-Pharazon said:
Cicero said:
^ I think I read somewhere that steam is a concern, because it could represent the boiling of water that's serving an important shielding role.
Click to expand...

I understand the steam can be radioactive, but smoke would mean an explosion or fire, so, there's levels of bad.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, the worry isn't so much that the steam might be radioactive (which is a problem in itself), but that the vaporization of the shielding water could cause the rods become exposed to air, which would allow them to react with oxygen and heat further, causing a greater release of radioactive material.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Asbo Zaprudder said:
Some other random dude associated with the nuclear industry quoted magnitude 8.2 as the standard upper design limit for Japanese reactors.
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Of course, how much disturbance there is beneath your feet depends very much on distance and depth of the epicenter, and the nature of the ground below you.

Japan has a different way of measuring earthquakes ~ a scalar field that describes the degree of disturbance at a point, called 'shindo'.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Jadzia said:
Japan has a different way of measuring earthquakes ~ a scalar field that describes the degree of disturbance at a point, called 'shindo'.
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Unfortunately, the Japanese have had to become experts in such matters. Is there a country on the Earth that suffers more from earthquakes?
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

This report from JAIF summarises the state of the nuclear plant.

jaif16march2011.png



You can get fresh reports from the JAIF website every few hours.
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/

.
 
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Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Well, I am quite nervous now about my future and my proximity to this power plant, about 120 miles away. My parents are freaking me out more, bombarding me with emails urging me to drop everything and come home. Which is not something I can do, but we are looking into me leaving earlier than planned. It's a real nightmare. I'm no longer as calm and collected about it as I once was.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Jadzia, Holy schnikes, it's a bit of a mess. It seems like #2 is the one being scrutinized the most. Here's hoping for a positive change there.

Goji said:
Well, I am quite nervous now about my future and my proximity to this power plant, about 120 miles away. My parents are freaking me out more, bombarding me with emails urging me to drop everything and come home. Which is not something I can do, but we are looking into me leaving earlier than planned. It's a real nightmare. I'm no longer as calm and collected about it as I once was.
Click to expand...

You're a remarkably intelligent and resourceful man, Goji. I've no doubt you'll get through this.
Stay safe and I know things will work out.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Goji said:
Well, I am quite nervous now about my future and my proximity to this power plant, about 120 miles away.
Click to expand...

Do you have radiation monitoring in your location Goji? If it were me, I wouldn't want to be exposed to 100x normal for more than a couple of days. I wouldn't want to be exposed to 40x normal for more than a couple of weeks.

I'd also be interested in the wind direction. If it turned, and I was then downwind from the plant, then I wouldn't hang about.

If I believed there's risk of a bigger release, then I'd act on that too, rather than waiting until the horse has bolted.

There's unlikely to be immediate visible effects of the radiation at 120 miles. People aren't going to be dropping sick in the streets, but it could affect health over the coming years in some hard to quantify way.

Estimate those risks yourself, and decide whether the benefits of staying outweigh the gains of leaving.
 
Re: Japan hit by 8.9 earthquake.

Goji said:
Well, I am quite nervous now about my future and my proximity to this power plant, about 120 miles away. My parents are freaking me out more, bombarding me with emails urging me to drop everything and come home. Which is not something I can do, but we are looking into me leaving earlier than planned. It's a real nightmare. I'm no longer as calm and collected about it as I once was.
Click to expand...

It's up to you man. Everyone around me has left. I'm staying for the moment. If you feel in real danger then go. We all got to decide for ourselves what to do.
 
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