Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

[Edit_XYZ]

Vandervecken

You know, since some posts ago, I realized I can predict pretty accurately your response. Not your phrasing, of course, but your main 'ideas'.
Apparently, once one knows your delusions/quirks, one can input a stimulus and get an expected response in turn, from you. Like playing an accordion. You would make an excellent subject for a psychiatric study in self-delusion and protection mechanisms.

This is why I've said in my last post 'Let's try an experiment'. I wanted to see whether your reactions will change/stop being utterly predictable if I make you aware that what followed is merely cheese for the rat in the maze and not the substance of my post.
Your reaction - utterly predictable. Like a human yo-yo.

Curious. But creepy.

 

[zarkon]

And it was a magical spell that disappeared Tuvok and Neelix and created Tuvix. Why is that spell alright? Plus I simply don't agree with you on the dead issue.

It's not alright, but it happened, and its aftereffects have to be dealt with. But the second time round, the "magic" would be intentional, not an accident.

For the dead issue, all I can do is judge it on what the episode gave us.

We're going to have to disagree, that's all.

Looks like.

 

[Vandervecken]

Vandervecken

You know, since some posts ago, I realized I can predict pretty accurately your response. Not your phrasing, of course, but your main 'ideas'.
Apparently, once one knows your delusions/quirks, one can input a stimulus and get an expected response in turn, from you. Like playing an accordion. You would make an excellent subject for a psychiatric study in self-delusion and protection mechanisms.

This is why I've said in my last post 'Let's try an experiment'. I wanted to see whether your reactions will change/stop being utterly predictable if I make you aware that what followed is merely cheese for the rat in the maze and not the substance of my post.
Your reaction - utterly predictable. Like a human yo-yo.

Curious. But creepy.

I like cheese, by the way, rat.

Do you believe you've said anything different in the last few posts? Different from your first 1 to 3 posts? You've done nothing but 1) restate your own, morally bankrupt position, and 2) misstate my well-thought out and entirely spot-on position. Pssst, boychik, the reason my responses have been largely the same has been because your posts have been largely the same. Especially the repetitive lying part.

I saw your post and responded to it. Congratulations: you caused someone to respond to your "writing." Wow, now that's unusual stuff for a posting board. You may now audition for the part of the Professor in a live-action version of Felix the Cat.

Do you actually imagine that your little pose here as some sort of master manipulator--someone responded to your nth repetition of the same garbage with the same stuff, oh my! What an achievement! Call NIH, grants are coming!--is something new? I've seen self-congratulatory shits like you write the same, tired, desperately sad and pseudo-intellectual dross all over the Internet, little pep talks for their unimportant and scared -of-real-life selves. It's the stuff teenage boys with acne who probably have never been laid and have been repeatedly beaten by stronger kids write, because they're powerless little shits and want to feel powerful for at least a moment. Good grief, what are you, 15? I know I stopped quoting Foundation well before I was 20; nobody was impressed then, and you're not impressing anyone now.

Maybe you should have some fun outside for a while? Your magnifying glass is waiting and some nearby ants have a date with destiny.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If you two weren't quoting each other in every post, you only would have made 2 pages while I was sleeping instead of 5.

The Mengele episode was Almost Human.

The Nazi episodes were The Killing Game.

The Ethics question was answered when Ransom deleted the EMH's Ethical subroutines in Equinox.

Have you wondered about life expectancy?

Tuvok was going to live another 200 years, and Neelix another 40 maybe.

So maybe that meant that Tuvix had another hundred years left?

Which is 2/5's of what Tuvok plus Neelix had going for them.

Quantity of life can be more important than quality of life.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Which is why Kes's feelings should have meant NOTHING. She is but a moth.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Life expectancy of the Kes/Neelix relationship after that point should have been years till she died of natural causes.

They broke up less than 6 months later because "Meh, whatever?".

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Any relationship she has is doomed, she will either outgrow you or drop dead in much less time than humans usually take to do that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ah, but Tuvok of Vulcan is the decider, and that is what he thinks of human beings too when he went back to get Janeway and Chakotay in Resolutions.

(Braga and Berman forgot/did not know about McCoy in Encounter at Farpoint and assumed that average human life expectancy was still 70 to 80 years because they are chumps.)

 

[Elias Vaughn]

Or McCoy was an outlier.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

McCoy has been injecting himself with super tachyon age extenders for decades.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Remember in TOS when they got old?

The Deadly Years?

What if whatever reversed that geriatricracy reversed it so well, that it was very difficult from that point on for Leonard to distinguish himself.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I don't know how he can live in a world without Kirk anyway. He should just off himself heroically, saving plague victims until he perishes from exhaustion.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He just wants to out live Spock (again) and dance on his grave.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

That competition will keep him alive forever!

 

[Akiraprise]

Vandervecken

You know, since some posts ago, I realized I can predict pretty accurately your response. Not your phrasing, of course, but your main 'ideas'.
Apparently, once one knows your delusions/quirks, one can input a stimulus and get an expected response in turn, from you. Like playing an accordion. You would make an excellent subject for a psychiatric study in self-delusion and protection mechanisms.

This is why I've said in my last post 'Let's try an experiment'. I wanted to see whether your reactions will change/stop being utterly predictable if I make you aware that what followed is merely cheese for the rat in the maze and not the substance of my post.
Your reaction - utterly predictable. Like a human yo-yo.

Curious. But creepy.

I like cheese, by the way, rat.

Do you believe you've said anything different in the last few posts? Different from your first 1 to 3 posts? You've done nothing but 1) restate your own, morally bankrupt position, and 2) misstate my well-thought out and entirely spot-on position. Pssst, boychik, the reason my responses have been largely the same has been because your posts have been largely the same. Especially the repetitive lying part.

I saw your post and responded to it. Congratulations: you caused someone to respond to your "writing." Wow, now that's unusual stuff for a posting board. You may now audition for the part of the Professor in a live-action version of Felix the Cat.

Do you actually imagine that your little pose here as some sort of master manipulator--someone responded to your nth repetition of the same garbage with the same stuff, oh my! What an achievement! Call NIH, grants are coming!--is something new? I've seen self-congratulatory shits like you write the same, tired, desperately sad and pseudo-intellectual dross all over the Internet, little pep talks for their unimportant and scared -of-real-life selves. It's the stuff teenage boys with acne who probably have never been laid and have been repeatedly beaten by stronger kids write, because they're powerless little shits and want to feel powerful for at least a moment. Good grief, what are you, 15? I know I stopped quoting Foundation well before I was 20; nobody was impressed then, and you're not impressing anyone now.

Maybe you should have some fun outside for a while? Your magnifying glass is waiting and some nearby ants have a date with destiny.

Gentlemen - I think that's enough of the bicker back and forth snipe fest between you two. It's taking over the thread. No more insulting from here on. Thanks.

How I've missed a good Tuvix thread.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

psst.. Akiraprise, it's very same thread you look back fondly on

 

[Akiraprise]

Between Tuvix and Kes threads I do not know which have had to be locked more of over the years!

 

[teya]

Simply put, ethics--medical ethics--do NOT make it clear that Tuvix has a right to live at the expense of two other lives. Too bad, so sad, you lose. It is anything but clear. You keep conveniently ignoring that every single atom that went to make up Tuvix comes from Tuvok and Neelix. THAT makes a difference. That's not "whatever." it's "whatever" to you because you're out of your depth and don't really know how to respond.

Actually, medical ethics *do* make it abundantly clear that Tuvix has the right to choose himself whether to live or die.

According to the episode, Tuvix was born through a process called symbiogenesis. He wasn't created, he didn't kill 2 people to create himself, he was *born*. Symbiogenesis is a form of procreation.

As he was a sentient life form, he had the right to choose his own fate.

The Doctor was absolutely right.

The closest thing we have to this dilemma today is live organ donation. And it is established that no one can be forced to risk his or her own life to save another.

As a sentient life-form, Tuvix has the right to self-determination.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

A woman's life would come before any potential lives that she might be carrying, and it would be her choice to decide to risk her life in order to save the other two.

Advantage: Tuvix.

 

[T'Girl]

^ By that logic, Neelix and Tuvok would be the ones to decide, owing to th fact that they are carrying Tuvix.

They are his container, substance, essence and combined lifeforce.

As I pointed out about seven hundredn posts back, after their captivity, neither Neelix, nor Tuvok, made any attempt to have themselves squeshed back into Tuvix.

Obviously they made their choice, a choice that was theirs to make.