Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crowd?

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Yeah, Xena and Gabs never actually come out and say they are a couple, and everything you see and hear on screen can be taken two different ways:

Really close friends
Lovers

But, Lucy an Renee have said often that the producers and TBTP in general were very adamant that Xena was not a show about lesbians. So, they had to work with what they had.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

But, Lucy an Renee have said often that the producers and TBTP in general were very adamant that Xena was not a show about lesbians. So, they had to work with what they had.

Really? I think I ran across a youtube audiofile of Lucy saying in the end the 2 characters were lovers, but just not explicitly so. It was from a sirius interview. I think.

Yup... Found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-dv3s1r8gM

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

"It was implicit that, um, they totally were [lovers]", but it was never shown or confirmed on screen.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I assume you are correct, but basing all my Xena knowledge on a bunch of vids that have 35,000 to 7,000,000 hits on youtube.... I got to say Xena got a lot more kissing and protestations of love out of Gabby in 6 years than Janeway got out of Chak in 7 seasons , or Chak got out of Seven (or vice a versa) in one season.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Yes, Xena did almost kiss Gabs a lot during the course of the series, and in the last 6 episodes of the series, Xena refers to Gabs as her 'partner', but that's as far as you get. It's not until the very last fight scene of the show that we actually see the two of them kiss, and it's for water transference (long story).

But, go watch some Xena cons, and you'll hear Luc and Renee talk about how they can say now that they thought of the two characters as lovers, but the big wigs were insistent that was not the case, so it was never actually confirmed or denied on screen.

Instead, the writers had a lot of fun playing with the subtext.

 

[Thestral]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

That's a shame. SVU is a really good show, and Benson is excellent, very well written and acted character.

I'm sure she is, and I've liked her in what bits of SVU I've seen. I just really, really don't care for L&O. Or procedurals in general; there has to be a character/s that catch my eye, hence why I like Bones and Castle. Benson's not enough to get me watching SVU though.

But, in reality TV, catty and snarky sell better than strong and independent when it comes to women stars. I could do with a lot less catty and lost more strong, which we're not going to get right now.

Now wait. Are you saying strong people can't be snarky? I find a healthy amount of snark to be really useful. Jadzia and Aeryn (ocassionally), as examples.

Yes, Xena did almost kiss Gabs a lot during the course of the series, and in the last 6 episodes of the series, Xena refers to Gabs as her 'partner', but that's as far as you get. It's not until the very last fight scene of the show that we actually see the two of them kiss, and it's for water transference (long story).

But, go watch some Xena cons, and you'll hear Luc and Renee talk about how they can say now that they thought of the two characters as lovers, but the big wigs were insistent that was not the case, so it was never actually confirmed or denied on screen.

Instead, the writers had a lot of fun playing with the subtext.

Well, to be fair, the show definitely didn't start off that way. There was the occasional bit of subtext, but it wasn't until they got a former Xena slashfic author on the creative team that the hints starts coming thick and heavy.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

But, in reality TV, catty and snarky sell better than strong and independent when it comes to women stars. I could do with a lot less catty and lost more strong, which we're not going to get right now.

Now wait. Are you saying strong people can't be snarky? I find a healthy amount of snark to be really useful. Jadzia and Aeryn (ocassionally), as examples.

I am saying it doesn't sell as well in reality tv, which is why we end up with shows like 'The Hills' or 'Real Housewives'.

Yes, Xena did almost kiss Gabs a lot during the course of the series, and in the last 6 episodes of the series, Xena refers to Gabs as her 'partner', but that's as far as you get. It's not until the very last fight scene of the show that we actually see the two of them kiss, and it's for water transference (long story).

But, go watch some Xena cons, and you'll hear Luc and Renee talk about how they can say now that they thought of the two characters as lovers, but the big wigs were insistent that was not the case, so it was never actually confirmed or denied on screen.

Instead, the writers had a lot of fun playing with the subtext.

Well, to be fair, the show definitely didn't start off that way. There was the occasional bit of subtext, but it wasn't until they got a former Xena slashfic author on the creative team that the hints starts coming thick and heavy.

No, it didn't. The first season had one Herc cross over that suggested Xena/Herc and Gabs/Iolaus were soul mates. That's the episode where Gabs tells the story about humans being split in two and having to search the world to find their other half. The implicit suggestion there is that Iolaus was her other half, of course.

However, what it started out as is less important than what it wound up being.

 

[Thestral]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

But, in reality TV, catty and snarky sell better than strong and independent when it comes to women stars. I could do with a lot less catty and lost more strong, which we're not going to get right now.

Now wait. Are you saying strong people can't be snarky? I find a healthy amount of snark to be really useful. Jadzia and Aeryn (ocassionally), as examples.

I am saying it doesn't sell as well in reality tv, which is why we end up with shows like 'The Hills' or 'Real Housewives'.

Err, okay. But I asked if you thought strong women could not be snarky, or vice versa.

Well, to be fair, the show definitely didn't start off that way. There was the occasional bit of subtext, but it wasn't until they got a former Xena slashfic author on the creative team that the hints starts coming thick and heavy.

No, it didn't. The first season had one Herc cross over that suggested Xena/Herc and Gabs/Iolaus were soul mates. That's the episode where Gabs tells the story about humans being split in two and having to search the world to find their other half. The implicit suggestion there is that Iolaus was her other half, of course.

However, what it started out as is less important than what it wound up being.

Eh?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I'm saying I was talking about snarky women not being strong women, period. I'm saying I was specifically referring to reality tv.

Yeah, sure, strong women can be snarky, but that's not what we were talking about.

In other words, it doesn't matter that Xena started with very little subtext. What matters is that there was, in fact, a lot of it throughout the series, which is what we were talking about.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Yes, Xena did almost kiss Gabs a lot during the course of the series, and in the last 6 episodes of the series, Xena refers to Gabs as her 'partner', but that's as far as you get. It's not until the very last fight scene of the show that we actually see the two of them kiss, and it's for water transference (long story).

But, go watch some Xena cons, and you'll hear Luc and Renee talk about how they can say now that they thought of the two characters as lovers, but the big wigs were insistent that was not the case, so it was never actually confirmed or denied on screen.

Instead, the writers had a lot of fun playing with the subtext.

Recall... I'm not sure what's last or not... but is this the "water transferance scene" you are talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oKBXVAQVC8

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Yup, that would be the one.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Is it? And that doesn't count as a kiss?

Hmmm.

Okay, so "Water transference" requires the giver to nibble on the upper lip of the receiver in order for it to work properly?

If only Chakotay thought of that, instead on CPR, "Coda" would have been EVEN better!

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Is it? And that doesn't count as a kiss?

Hmmm.

Okay, so "Water transference" requires the giver to nibble on the upper lip of the receiver in order for it to work properly?

If only Chakotay thought of that, instead on CPR, "Coda" would have been EVEN better!

I said, "It's not until the very last fight scene of the show that we actually see the two of them kiss, and it's for water transference". So, yes, I (and most Xena fans) consider that a kiss.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Sorry, my mistake.

That WAS some kiss!

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Yes, that was. It was a show stopper.

 

[kimc]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

^ Didn't see much water transferring but if that was a platonic kiss I'll eat a bar of white chocolate...

... never mind I already did that today...

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

^ Didn't see much water transferring but if that was a platonic kiss I'll eat a bar of white chocolate...

... never mind I already did that today...

I wonder what would happen if we put Mulgrew and Lawless in a story together.

Besides, of course, causing Admiral Hawthorne to go into throes of ecstasy.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

^ Didn't see much water transferring but if that was a platonic kiss I'll eat a bar of white chocolate...

... never mind I already did that today...

I wonder what would happen if we put Mulgrew and Lawless in a story together.

Besides, of course, causing Admiral Hawthorne to go into throes of ecstasy.

Fun facts about Admiral Hawthorne

She has the hots for the following women:

Emily Deschanel

Felicia Day

Kate Mulgrew

Lucy Lawless

Mariska Hargitay

Renee O'Connor

Stephanie March

Reba McEntire

Figure out a way to incorporate all of those woman, and my head would implode.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I am so out of it. I haven't even heard of three of them (# 1, 2 7)

You should have used the classic Mulgrew photo in the white dress with legs crossed... it would have been the perfect counterpoint to Lucy's outfit.



Hmmmm, if we put everyone in one story, does that mean Renee is going to end up killing Kate for moving in on Lucy?



if so... Mariska Hargitay could arrest Renee and Reba could sing at Kate's funeral.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

We're not killing anyone.