Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crowd?

[JanewayRulz!]

Sometimes I think its good to look at something "in context".

There have been some amazing women on the TV screen over the years... from Claire Huxtable mom/lawyer/partner in crime with husband Cliff on "The Cosby Show" in the 1980's... to alcoholic/tobacco withdrawing televsion news reporter Murphy Brown and those Designing Women and their Golden Girls counterparts. They made the 1980's and early 1990s worth pulling up a chair on Monday nights.

But being smart and not being afraid to show it only goes so far. Sometimes we want more, and in the mid 1990's, for some reason, TPTB decided to give it to us.

In 1993 "The X Files" gave us Dana Scully and "Deep Space Nine" gave us Major Kira and Lt-Lt Commander Jadzia Dax. (I'm jumping over Bab 5, due to unfamiliarity, not due to scorn)

In 1995 "Voyager brought us not only Captain Kathryn Janeway, but Lt B'Elanna Torres, telepathic Kes, and eventually the stunningly logical Seven of Nine. 1995 was a banner year, since it also introduced "XENA: Warrior Princess".

By 1996, we had another strong character, if not necessarily a "rolemodel" in Miss Parker in the scifi lite show "The Pretender", a woman who would pistol whip you as easily as kiss you.

1997 had Major Sarah Mackenzie join JAG, another woman handy with a gun when words didn't suffice, but it also gave us "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer", a teenager more apt to slay the beasts besetting her community than take them to court.

1999 gave us FARSCAPE and the incomparable Aeryn Sun

Were the 1990's the heyday of strong female characters? Since then we seem to have a surfeit of carbon copies...lady medical examiners, lady cops, lady CSI specialists... but do we have anyone you would follow into the Hellmouth to save the world?

It was an amazing decade, anchored (for me) by an amazing character, and that is why years later I'm still talking about her.

Pity, actually, since it means there's not much else out there for me to talk about.

Am I just being jaded... or is it just that "reality tv bites".

 

[Ensign Johnson]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Reality TV is awful and apparently all women should like it and if they don't they should be watching soaps and dramas not sci-fi. I do like some dramas and some have great female characters like Kalinda on The Good Wife. Lately it seems like any new sci-fi show I like gets cancelled. Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles had good female characters as did Firefly and Dollhouse but they all got awful ratings because people would rather watch Simon Cowell being cruel to people. I will admit to watching America's Next Top Model, I can't help but love Tyra.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I can't do "reality tv"... and there are just so many legal shows I can watch. (NCIS being the only one I tend to watch regularly).

If it wasn't for scifi... I wouldn't turn the TV on, and since Battlestar ended, I turn it on less and less for first run shows.

I miss Laura Roslyn primarily because she helped me get over the absence of Janeway. Now that we have neither... I'm back into withdrawl. Youtube vids aren't even a substitute. If I can quote Linus (from Peanuts, not from "Lost") the music vids are like throwing a starving dog a rubber bone. Nice to chew on, but there's no sustenance to it.

 

[Thestral]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I'd call '93 more of a banner year than '95.

Aside from Scully, Kira, and Dax, you've also got Commander Susan Ivanova and Ambassador Delenn from Babylon 5, as well as Lt. Commander Katherine Hitchcock and Dr. Kristen Westphalen from seaQuest dsv (those last two made more noticeable by their far inferior replacements).

The 90s also gave us Captain/Major/Colonel Samantha Carter

I'm surprised you mentioned the outstanding Aeryn Sun but neglected Zhaan.

As for today, well, there's certainly fewer (read: no) female starship captains or military commanders since BSG ended, but that doesn't mean there's no longer strong women. It has more to do with the general lack of space opera. But there are certainly strong female characters. Temperance "Bones" Brennan. Kate Beckett from Castle. Tami Taylor from Friday Night Lights is a fantastic example. To name a few.

And in the sci-fi realm, there's a reason the Doctor and his companions from this latest series can be fairly referred to as "Amy Pond and her boys."

To answer the subject line question... I would say just one of the crowd, honestly. As far as the actual character goes, Janeway doesn't really stick out to me as someone I'd follow into the Hellmouth over most of those listed. Certainly not over Kira, Ivanova, Delenn, Aeryn, or Carter. Or Dax and Hitchcock, for me. And I'd follow Amy Pond anywhere.

 

[vas2009]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

For some reason if Jeri Ryan played Janeway I would have liked Janeway a lot less.
There is obvious Hottness and the there is figure it out for yourself hottness. I'd rather fall in love by building a relationship and respect. Gotta say that beauty and boobs can be distracting.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I'd call '93 more of a banner year than '95.

Aside from Scully, Kira, and Dax, you've also got Commander Susan Ivanova and Ambassador Delenn from Babylon 5, as well as Lt. Commander Katherine Hitchcock and Dr. Kristen Westphalen from seaQuest dsv (those last two made more noticeable by their far inferior replacements).

The 90s also gave us Captain/Major/Colonel Samantha Carter

I'm surprised you mentioned the outstanding Aeryn Sun but neglected Zhaan.


To answer the subject line question... I would say just one of the crowd, honestly. As far as the actual character goes, Janeway doesn't really stick out to me as someone I'd follow into the Hellmouth over most of those listed. Certainly not over Kira, Ivanova, Delenn, Aeryn, or Carter. Or Dax and Hitchcock, for me. And I'd follow Amy Pond anywhere.

I'm not sure if I watched Seaquest... but am glad to hear of their impact on the show. Thanks for adding the B5 ladies... I looked over the "wiki" on the show, but didn't know enough to single out a particular character.

Forgetting Zhaan is a huge BLUE faux pas, and for that I apologize.

Even though I never watched Stargate beyond the movie... I certainly knew of the famed Col. Samantha Carter...and for that too the board gets a HUGE mea culpa from me.

See, the 90's were chock full of amazing women... Here's to hoping that more are in the offing. They say that variety is the spice of life... but when one is limited in their choices they tend to turn everything down. I wonder if TPTB at network television ever consider following the cable model. Instead of giving us more of the same, they should go smaller and give us fewer eps of very different TV shows?

If the audience has learned to turn the set off... then what hope do they have that we will ever turn it on again?

Vas2009

For some reason if Jeri Ryan played Janeway I would have liked Janeway a lot less.

There is obvious Hottness and the there is figure it out for yourself hottness. I'd rather fall in love by building a relationship and respect. Gotta say that beauty and boobs can be distracting.

It does take the right actress for the right part, doesn't it? When researching the years different shows started, I read that Lucy Lawless was the 3rd or 4th choice for Xena... and Renee O'Connor was also "2nd place" for her character. Xena is a show I never watched, but their impact on the TV psyche was far reaching. For a couple "also rans".

As you know, Mulgrew wasn't even cast first for Janeway. She stepped into the boots literally days after Bujold stepped (thankfully) out of them.

To be fair, however... I can't see anyone but Jeri Ryan in the role of Seven of Nine.... just like I can't see anyone except Jolene Blalock as T'Pol. (And in a sense, one would think the two roles would flip easily).

 

[kimc]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

If the audience has learned to turn the set off... then what hope do they have that we will ever turn it on again?

I must confess I'm one of those who have turned it off. I used to love not only sci-fi like Voyager and nuBSG but also the classic situation comedies like Friends. Now it's all reality shows which are beyond stupid. Consequently I've been buying my old favorites on dvd and enjoying them along with classic movies. Right now I'm in the middle of a Lost marathon.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I turned it off for a long time, too. Olivia Benson and Bones brought me back. Notice that they are both strong female leads, though.

Reality TV bites.

Janeway, however, was just one of the crowd, but she was still awesome.

 

[Thestral]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Bones is an excellent example, even if I don't care for procedurals as a whole. My distaste for the L&O franchise prevents me from enjoying Olivia, but I recognize her.

Beckett (from Castle) is another great example - plus, Stana Katic and Nathan Fillion have wonderful chemistry. Also, Castle's mom and especially daughter steal every scene they're in.

Friday Night Lights is a massively ensemble show, but Tami Taylor is one of the shining leads (even if the show is nearing the end).

And of course there's Amy Pond. And Donna Noble before her.

Really, the genre options may be down, but there are certainly still strong female characters out there. I've just listed a few that came to mind.

Just ignore the reality junk, of course.

ETA: np, JanewayRulz! B5's a daunting show, if worth it. I just recently got some seaQuest DVDs so it's fresh on my mind. We could also talk cartoon women (Elisa Maza!), but you've got a solid list.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

That's a shame. SVU is a really good show, and Benson is excellent, very well written and acted character.

 

[exodus]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I don't find all Reality TV bad.
I've found shows like "Top Chef" have help exposed allot of folks to new culanary skills, ingredients and ideas as well as introduce them to many top award winning chefs in the business and their restaurants. Many of the contestants on it have gotten huge exposure that's help launch their own culanary careers as well as sponsors for endorsements. I think "the Apprentice" can also be used as an educational tool.

I think it depends on what type of Reality TV you watch & what you watch it for.
I think there's way better TV on than just sci-fi.

Kira Sedgewick's "The Closer"

Holly Hunter's -Saving Grace

Katey Segal on "Son's of Anarchy"

Elizabeth Moss & Christina Hendricks on "Mad Men"

Anna Gunn on "Breaking Bad".

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

But, in reality TV, catty and snarky sell better than strong and independent when it comes to women stars. I could do with a lot less catty and lost more strong, which we're not going to get right now.

 

[exodus]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

But, in reality TV, catty and snarky sell better than strong and independent when it comes to women stars. I could do with a lot less catty and lost more strong, which we're not going to get right now.

Like I said, it depends on what you watch those types of shows for. When folks think of Realty TV, all they think of is the crappy stuff like "Housewives of Orange County". Folks hardly associate educational reality TV like "Deadliest Catch" or "Iron Chef" in that catagory.

"Intervention" is also another form of educational reality TV.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Because educational tv is not reality tv in the pop-culture sense of the word. There has always been educational reality tv. Jacques-Yves Cousteau comes to mind immediately, and tv shows like The Frugal Gourmet or The Joy of Painting come to mind as well.

But, let's face a fact here, we're talking pop culture definition of reality tv, not the all encompassing, big umbrella idea of reality tv.

 

[froot]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Because educational tv is not reality tv in the pop-culture sense of the word. There has always been educational reality tv. Jacques-Yves Cousteau comes to mind immediately, and tv shows like The Frugal Gourmet or The Joy of Painting come to mind as well.

But, let's face a fact here, we're talking pop culture definition of reality tv, not the all encompassing, big umbrella idea of reality tv.

Holy cow, The Frugal Gourmet. Now I'm really feeling the '90s (80s, too? I can't remember) vibe!!! Forgot entirely about that show!

Janeway wasn't just "one of the crowd" to me, but I was only a couple months away from turning 10 when Voyager premiered, so a lot of the women characters mentioned here I wasn't familiar with until later on. I mostly vegged out in front of Nickelodeon all day with a little TNG/DS9 sprinkled in for flavor. So she was novel as hell for me, personally.

She might have been one of a team of good woman characters for adult viewers, but I wonder how many little girls sat down to watch Star Trek that night in 1995 and were inspired? Star Trek's always been one of those shows folks of all ages can watch, so I wonder if she had a bigger impression on kids.

Most of the female characters I actually like best these days come from 2000-era shows, not the 1990s (Sailor Moon aside )

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Sailor Moon should never be a role model. *shivers*

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Janeway wasn't just "one of the crowd" to me, but I was only a couple months away from turning 10 when Voyager premiered, so a lot of the women characters mentioned here I wasn't familiar with until later on.

I... Feel... SO... Old!

I'm SURE I have shoes older than you!

I suspect your folks wouldn't let you watch Xena, what with its bloodlusty vibes..., and you were probably way too young for DS9 when it first started, much less the X Files.

I've been searching for youtubes of old Xena episodes so I can see what I missed, but quite frankly there aren't any. There ARE a ton of vids that give a "pretty good idea" of the show, and I think I'm liking some of the campier things I've seen. (Oh... BY THE WAY... I no longer think Janeway is touchy feely with her crew.... NOT after watching the close personal relationship Xena has with Gabrielle. I liked what one videographer called it... when "subtext is the main text". )

As for B5.... I'm wise enough to know to avoid Youtube completely and just borrow the DVDs so I can watch them straight through.

froot, you should definately consider Farscape on your DVD player, and it doesn't take long to get used to the "puppet" characters.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Oh my goodness, yes... Xena was nothing but one big Lez yank. Seriously... everyone knew it was show about lesbians that wasn't about lesbians.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

I told you already how uncultured I was, when I admitted last week to never reading Shakespeare's "Antony & Cleopatra".

Now you REALLY know how backward I am.

 

[froot]

Re: Janeway in 1990's television. Outstanding, or just one of the crow

Well, if you feel old, I feel a bit young, now.

Anyways, my mom was a huge X-Files fan (pretty much on the same level I was a VOY fan) during its run; so I watched quite a bit of X-Files. I also watched DS9, although we weren't as fastidious about catching every episode when it was on like we did with VOY. I have since been gathering DS9 on DVD for a re-viewing. I watched TNG on its first run, too, although anything but the most basic of plotlines flew right over my head. :P

And I love Xena and Hercules. I just saw them a little later on. They're delightfully campy and a lot of fun. (I wasn't aware they weren't openly lesbian on Xena?!)

Farscape and B5 are the shows I pretty much missed entirely. I'm not horribly interested in B5, but Farscape does seem like something I'd dig.

Adm_Hawthorne, I must defend my Sailor Moon's honor to the death. What was shown on American TV and what was shown in the original comics were quite different. The television series (both North American and Japanese) was written by men; the comics by a woman.

The thing I find most attractive about Sailor Moon as a character is one of the same things I find appealing about Janeway as a character: her willingness to give all for her friends and her people. She'll even believe in her enemies, if she thinks redemption is at all possible.