Janeway Died? In Which Book?

[Lynx]

Thanks for information about the "Spock case" in the movies. I didn't know about Nimoy's input or the "behind-the -scene" politics. However, it all turned out to the best and I do think we should be grateful for that. The TOS movies wouldn't have been the same without Spock and it was nice to see him in some episodes too, even if I do agree that "Unification" wasn't the best TNG episode.

As for "Nemesis", I do remember that there were some rumors and speculation around that time that it would be the last TNG movie, mainly since Stewart and Spiner weren't interested anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it some negotiating over money and such as well?

 

[ronny]

I don't recall specifics about Nemesis, but I don't remember anything put out while the film was in production to indicate it'd be the last TNG movie...at least, not in the sense that ST VI was pushed as the "final voyage of the original crew." As I remember it, only after the film's disappointing box office performance did that sort of talk really ramp up. I welcome those with better memories to help me out here

I'm not sure my memory is better but I was about to type something similar before I saw this. I don't remember being saying "Guess we won't do that again" until the reviews and box office numbers started coming in. In fact I remember Patrick Stewart saying he was disappointed in the fans response and didn't see going back. Of course that was about the time he was also doing x-man movies so he probably figured he's got another franchise so he didn't need the headache. Then x-man 3 came out. He'd probably do an ST movie now.

 

[Trent Roman]

Actually, NEM was marketed with the tagline "A Generation's Final Journey Begins" before it ever actually opened. I seem to recall a lot of speculation at the time that, given the interests (or lack thereof) of certain actors, should NEM have proven sucessful the next film would still not have been straight-up TNG but an admixture of 24th-century elements. (Of course, for all we know, boffo box office numbers could have tempted all cast members to return for still another TNG film.)

^ :: fistbump ::

Terrorist.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[thirteenth]

Oh my god, Janeway died?!

 

[captcalhoun]

Actually, NEM was marketed with the tagline "A Generation's Final Journey Begins" before it ever actually opened. I seem to recall a lot of speculation at the time that, given the interests (or lack thereof) of certain actors, should NEM have proven sucessful the next film would still not have been straight-up TNG but an admixture of 24th-century elements. (Of course, for all we know, boffo box office numbers could have tempted all cast members to return for still another TNG film.)

i recall there were comments before it opened that the tagline said "Begins" implying that it was open for there to be more TNG movies. "A Generation's Final Journey Reaches Its Middle"???

and also, IIRC, it was largely Spiner who wanted out, moreso than Stewart...

 

[ClayinCA]

^ It's been a while, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was Harve Bennett who devised the whole "Remember" thing, as a possible plot point which could be revisited in the event there was another Trek project (at the time of ST II's filming, ST III was not a certainty).

Having just read I Am Spock and recently watched Wrath of Khan with the commentary, I can back you up on this.

Ah, OK, I stand corrected. Thanks. Always thought it was Nimoy...you learn something new every day.

Thanks for information about the "Spock case" in the movies. I didn't know about Nimoy's input or the "behind-the -scene" politics. However, it all turned out to the best and I do think we should be grateful for that. The TOS movies wouldn't have been the same without Spock and it was nice to see him in some episodes too, even if I do agree that "Unification" wasn't the best TNG episode.

Lynx, this is twice in the same day I've agreed with you. Do we see a trend? It is amazing how all these little incidents worked through all those wonderfully creative people involved with the Trek films at that time, and ended up creating some truly great movies, especially since the original idea was that Spock would just, y'know, die...and then on to the next movie.

As for "Nemesis", I do remember that there were some rumors and speculation around that time that it would be the last TNG movie, mainly since Stewart and Spiner weren't interested anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it some negotiating over money and such as well?

Yeah, my memory is definitely that we pretty much knew Nemesis was at least probably going to be the last one at the time it came out. Then again, I was wrong about the whole "Remember" thing, so what do I know...?

and also, IIRC, it was largely Spiner who wanted out, moreso than Stewart...

I definitely remember that as well. He said in numerous interviews that he felt he was getting too old to continue to play Data, whom he saw as an innocent.

 

[Jaron]

Oh my god, Janeway died?!

No, that was a typo. This is a 26-page thread about her hair colour.

 

[Lynx]

Lynx, this is twice in the same day I've agreed with you. Do we see a trend? It is amazing how all these little incidents worked through all those wonderfully creative people involved with the Trek films at that time, and ended up creating some truly great movies, especially since the original idea was that Spock would just, y'know, die...and then on to the next movie.

Hmmm.......are you developing bad habits?

Anyway, I agree with your statement. All those small details led to something great.

 

[Marie1]

Oh my god, Janeway died?!

No, that was a typo. This is a 26-page thread about her hair colour.

Well, kinda... maybe.

Or maybe... it means something! After all...

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Oh my god, Janeway died?!

Well, she is dead-ish anyway.

 

[JD]

Unfortunately some actors don't seem to care that much for the characters or the feelings of the fans.

Ok, I'm sorry, but I can almost guarantee you that this is not at all the case. I've been fascinated by the behind the scenes elements of TV and movies for pretty much my whole life, and from what I've seen that does not seem to be the case at all. I think many times it is simply that they either want to move and do something different or try to get what they feel they deserve. Which given how the movie industry works is understandable IMO. I know I have read many interviews and articles where people are very sad to leave a show and character that they have worked on for many years.

 

[Lynx]

Unfortunately some actors don't seem to care that much for the characters or the feelings of the fans.

Ok, I'm sorry, but I can almost guarantee you that this is not at all the case. I've been fascinated by the behind the scenes elements of TV and movies for pretty much my whole life, and from what I've seen that does not seem to be the case at all. I think many times it is simply that they either want to move and do something different or try to get what they feel they deserve. Which given how the movie industry works is understandable IMO. I know I have read many interviews and articles where people are very sad to leave a show and character that they have worked on for many years.

You're absolutely right here and note that I did write "some actors", not all.

I know that many actors really care about their characters and care for the feelings of the fans too.

 

[kimc]

I think that in either case, the story should be paramount; I don't think the books should be any more restricted than the series would've been, ESPECIALLY given that in this case all the series are long over.

I agree with you. However, a death scene done will should leave you crying over a beloved character - not pissed off at the way the death was handled. So far I've yet to hear of one Janeway fan that was touched by her death. In that respect Peter David failed in his execution.

 

[DimesDan]

I think that in either case, the story should be paramount; I don't think the books should be any more restricted than the series would've been, ESPECIALLY given that in this case all the series are long over.

I agree with you. However, a death scene done will should leave you crying over a beloved character - not pissed off at the way the death was handled. So far I've yet to hear of one Janeway fan that was touched by her death. In that respect Peter David failed in his execution.

I was touched by it.

 

[Thrawn]

I think that in either case, the story should be paramount; I don't think the books should be any more restricted than the series would've been, ESPECIALLY given that in this case all the series are long over.

I agree with you. However, a death scene done will should leave you crying over a beloved character - not pissed off at the way the death was handled. So far I've yet to hear of one Janeway fan that was touched by her death. In that respect Peter David failed in his execution.

Sure, but that's a different issue. If they screwed it up, then that sucks. But I think they should be allowed to do whatever they want, basically, in creating the stories in the first place.

And besides, I think that Full Circle is going to make a lot more Janeway fans touched by her death. Or at least I hope so.

 

[Therin of Andor]

So far I've yet to hear of one Janeway fan that was touched by her death. In that respect Peter David failed in his execution.

So you haven't noticed what lots of us have been saying for years?

I'm a Janeway fan and I was distressed and moved by the events of her death in "Before Dishonor", and the connection she made with Seven near the end. And I found Suzie Q to be frustratingly smug about it all, which is dead-on with her ST character. And I can't wait for "Full Circle", which is more than I could say for the "Spirit Walk" duology, which still sits on my "to read" pile.

Or do I not count as a Janeway fan 'cos I rarely visit the VOY board, or 'cos I liked PAD's novel?

 

[Thrawn]

I'm a Janeway fan and I was distressed and moved by the events of her death in "Before Dishonor", and the connection she made with Seven near the end. And I found Suzie Q to be frustratingly smug about it all, which is dead-on with her ST character. And I can't wait for "Full Circle"...

(And actually, I agree with this too, 100%. But I still say it's a separate issue.)

 

[Lynx]

I think that in either case, the story should be paramount; I don't think the books should be any more restricted than the series would've been, ESPECIALLY given that in this case all the series are long over.

I agree with you. However, a death scene done will should leave you crying over a beloved character - not pissed off at the way the death was handled. So far I've yet to hear of one Janeway fan that was touched by her death. In that respect Peter David failed in his execution.

Sure, but that's a different issue. If they screwed it up, then that sucks. But I think they should be allowed to do whatever they want, basically, in creating the stories in the first place.

And besides, I think that Full Circle is going to make a lot more Janeway fans touched by her death. Or at least I hope so.

Honestly, it would be better if "Full Circle" would bring Janeway back. That would at least make many fans happy.

 

[Defcon]

^^^ And most likely would piss off at least as many fans.

But since it's already clear this won't happen it's a moot point.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Honestly, it would be better if "Full Circle" would bring Janeway back. That would at least make many fans happy.

It would make a lot very angry, since there's been an awful lot of miracle resurrection in ST... Someone who stays dead would be... unique!