Janeway Died? In Which Book?

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Maybe I don`t get it and if that is the case, maybe someone can explain that to me: Why couldn`t Janeway the Admiral not play an important part in the Star Trek books universe?

It seems there is a stubborn prejudice that Admirals have to be boring and uninteresting also because they sit behind desks doing paperwork and go to boring conferences while the action and excitement is with the captains. (I am exaggerating of course) Therefore Kirk was promoted to Admiral because people wanted to see him rewarded but on the other hand, Kirk the captain is much more familiar to the audience and something they are more comfortable with. I can imagine that it was also much easier to stay with the established pattern instead of making Kirk the Admiral more interesting.

Peter David has shown that this doesn`t have to be this way. His Admiral Nechayev is excellent and the part Jellico played in “Turnaround” shows again that Admirals can even add and additional layer to a character that should be explored much more. My hope is that PAD will do so in “Treason” because Shelby is an Admiral as well.

I must admit, I find the reasoning why Janeway was killed very annoying. It is not because I have been a Janeway fan. I certainly wasn`t. But she would have been an ideal candidate to explore what Admirals do and could have provided interesting links between various characters and Star Trek book series. What a wasted opportunity!

 

[USS Intrepid]

I agree. I think the reasoning for killing her off is logical enough, but I simply don't agree with it. I really hate that she's been killed off, and as others have mentioned, there were plenty of directions Admiral Janeway could have been taken in and kept fresh.

 

[captcalhoun]

i don't care about Janeway dying particularly, but I have to admit the attitude of 'we don't know what to do with her, let's kill her!' seems a bit strange.

but, then again, i never would've tried to continue the VGR series afte rthey got home anyway. I'd've put the ship in a museum and given everyone else promotions and new assignments.

 

[Sci]

Just.... refresh my memory a bit, here.

Before Dishonor was published in 2007, right?

So.... It's almost two years on, and we're still bitching about it?

It happened. The decision was made. It wasn't an invalid decision, and I, for one, appreciate seeing a major character die and have it be real for once.

Let's move on.

 

[sniksder]

i don't care about Janeway dying particularly, but I have to admit the attitude of 'we don't know what to do with her, let's kill her!' seems a bit strange.

Got to agree, a lot a novels (comics as well) that I enjoy, I enjoy because of the charactors, yes the writing is improtant and with comics the artist, but for me it's the charactor that drives me to read the book/comci and what happens to them next.

So when the author or publishing company decides that it's time for them to go, and or they change the charactor out of the blue to impose their (writer) political and or moral views, I stop buying those books/comics.

To say her story is told is disingenious, you could say that about a lot of fictional figures, but they don't kill them all, someone in power had/has an issue with the charactor of Janeway and wanted her gone.

I have never liked reading Trek novels that take place in the past (after the TV series and or movies), to me this is why Enterprise failed on TV.

As a Trek fan I want to see and read what happens next, not what happend in the past that rewrites what we were already told or shown.

Granted no Universe has contridicted themselves more than the Trek universe.

 

[LightningStorm]

Just.... refresh my memory a bit, here.

Before Dishonor was published in 2007, right?

So.... It's almost two years on, and we're still bitching about it?

It happened. The decision was made. It wasn't an invalid decision, and I, for one, appreciate seeing a major character die and have it be real for once.

Let's move on.

Are you kidding? The first two A Time To books came out 5 years ago and people still bitch about those. Spirit Walk was also 5 years ago and are still bitched about. And then there's the canon: Nemesis: 6 years. These are the Voyages: 3 years. Tuvix was 12 years ago.

So a book that is only 1 year old (and a month or two) is virtually still brand spanking new.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think the reasoning for killing her off is logical enough, but I simply don't agree with it. I really hate that she's been killed off, and as others have mentioned, there were plenty of directions Admiral Janeway could have been taken in and kept fresh.

That argument works for EVERY character in ST, though. A "clever writer" can make any character fresh again.

But, as said earlier in the thread, people here, and elsewhere, often demand that publishers of licensed tie-ins "grow some balls" and do something shocking, and refrain from hitting the "dreaded reset button". And, as soon as it's done, factions of fans complain, while others cheer.

 

[Dayton Ward]

i don't care about Janeway dying particularly, but I have to admit the attitude of 'we don't know what to do with her, let's kill her!' seems a bit strange.

Unless I'm missing something, nobody on the editorial side of things ever said any such thing. That's all speculation, seemingly coming from some of the more vocal opponents to the decision. I don't get to attend all the special meetings and secret planning sessions and whatnot, but I find it hard to believe that the editors and writers pulling all this stuff together simply threw their hands up and said, "Shit, we're out of ideas. Let's whack her."

Disagree with the choice all you want, but the choice to to kill Janeway was deliberate, after consideration of pros and cons with respect to future storytelling, and deciding this was the avenue with the best/most interesting potential. We'll see how it plays out, but the choice wasn' simply the end result of being unable to think of anything else.

 

[adamczar]

In regards to the "it happened 2 years ago" comment... some people are just getting around to reading the book. I'm still reading books from 10 years ago that I never got around to. Just because you read it when it first came out doesn't mean everyone else has to keep quiet about their opinions.

^ I agree, I'm looking forward to see how it all pans out. I accept that she's dead. My "problem" isn't with the fact that it happened, it's just how it happened, is all. But I suppose there's no pleasing everyone.

 

[Christopher]

i don't care about Janeway dying particularly, but I have to admit the attitude of 'we don't know what to do with her, let's kill her!' seems a bit strange.

Nobody said that they had no idea what to do with her. The point is that her role as it stood in canon and recent books was limited, and that something new had to happen with her, something that had the potential to shake up the status quo and introduce new story possibilities. It's true that killing her and exploring the consequences of that loss on her crewmates isn't the only possible thing that could've been chosen. But something had to be chosen.

If something else had been chosen, though, I guarantee there would be people online saying, "Aww, why don't have the guts to do something really radical with Janeway like killing her off?" And the answer to that question would be essentially the same as the answer to your question: that a decision can only be made one way, and this is what was chosen in this particular case. Every decision rules out other possibilities, but that doesn't mean that the people making that decision were somehow too stupid to recognize those other options or too lazy or callous or petty to consider them seriously. It simply means that, even if you consider all the options, even if multiple options are valid, ultimately you can only pick one. And once you've made your choice, you have to stick with it and be true to it.

I think the reason people are still complaining is that they haven't really seen any exploration of the aftereffects of Janeway's death, so they can only see the possibilities it closes off and not the ones it creates. I think that will change once Full Circle comes out.

 

[Therin of Andor]

that a decision can only be made one way, and this is what was chosen in this particular case. Every decision rules out other possibilities

There ya go! Instead of the relaunch we were given, Pocket Books needed to do "Voyager: Homecoming: Choose-Your-Own Adventure". (Or "Plot-it-Yourself", "Which Way", or "Twist-a-Plot". Same thing.)

 

[Ktrek]

I do think the possibilities as to what can be done with Janeway are rather limited. I'm not sure that the way she was killed in Before Dishonor is the way I would have killed her off but the fact remains that she is now dead in the Star Trek novel universe. I think it would be a cop out to resurrect her in any way, shape, or form. Just as real life moves on so too should the characters in Star Trek. Someday perhaps we may even get to see Picard die in a blaze of glory or maybe just as an old retired person on his death bed. Who knows! In any case a bit of reality is a good thing.

Kevin

 

[ClayinCA]

Are you kidding? The first two A Time To books came out 5 years ago and people still bitch about those. Spirit Walk was also 5 years ago and are still bitched about. And then there's the canon: Nemesis: 6 years. These are the Voyages: 3 years. Tuvix was 12 years ago.

Well, I'm still mad as hell about something that happened in The Price of the Phoenix, so....

 

[USS Intrepid]

But, as said earlier in the thread, people here, and elsewhere, often demand that publishers of licensed tie-ins "grow some balls" and do something shocking, and refrain from hitting the "dreaded reset button". And, as soon as it's done, factions of fans complain, while others cheer.

Also true (although I'm not one of those).

Anyway, just sayin' not my cup of tea, I didn't like the decision and it makes me less likely to buy future novels, because I am, by extension, less interested in the direction they're taking things.

Purely a personal thing.

 

[Trent Roman]

i don't care about Janeway dying particularly, but I have to admit the attitude of 'we don't know what to do with her, let's kill her!' seems a bit strange.

Unless I'm missing something, nobody on the editorial side of things ever said any such thing. That's all speculation, seemingly coming from some of the more vocal opponents to the decision.

Here's what we've heard:

I spoke with PAD and Marco and Margaret at Shore Leave '08. According to Margaret it was Paramount that insisted on the extra bit with Janeway at the end. She wanted her to be unambiguously dead. Margaret felt that Janeway's story had been told and that her death would provide more story motivation for other characters than her continued presence as an admiral at Starfleet HQ. (...) Janeway's character had done everything that she was created to do. She had gotten her people home and settled her outstanding plot threads ( her fiance ) and been promoted to Admiral. Without some kind of contrived plotting she would not realistically be part of the common adventures of the starship Voyager. By killing her they could use that to create drama with the remaining characters and explore their reactions.

And I'm fairly certain we'd heard something to that effect before, because I remember challenging the idea that there was nothing interesting to do with an Admiral Janeway some months back. My policy is: combat ignorance with knowledge. If aelius inadvertently misrepresented editoral's stance, let us know.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Christopher]

Trent, there is nothing in the quoted description of Margaret's explanation which says "we didn't know what to do with her." From the quoted passage, it sounds like a lot of careful thought went into it.

 

[Dayton Ward]

And I'm fairly certain we'd heard something to that effect before, because I remember challenging the idea that there was nothing interesting to do with an Admiral Janeway some months back. My policy is: combat ignorance with knowledge. If aelius inadvertently misrepresented editoral's stance, let us know.

Well, "Margaret feels her story's been told" <> "Shit, we're out of ideas," right?

Again, as I understand it, options were explored, and it was decided that this approach was one which could provide untapped story potential so far as the remaining VGR cast members were concerned. Everything else is fan reaction to said decision, and it remains to be seen if the decision was a wise one.

If that doesn't fit the criteria of "your policy," then I'll just have to learn to live with your disappointment.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Admiral Ross added a lot to DS9 and he definitely wasn't the typical "I'm a big dumbass" type Admiral character we so often see. Seems to me that something similar could have been done with Janeway.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Admiral Ross added a lot to DS9 and he definitely wasn't the typical "I'm a big dumbass" type Admiral character we so often see. Seems to me that something similar could have been done with Janeway.

Sure, but how many future "Voyager" novels would a not-dumbass admiral sustain before it gets tedious?

 

[FalTorPan]

Ding, dong. The witch is dead.
Which old witch? The Janeway witch!