Janeway Died? In Which Book?

[Lynx]

I can see that some posters found my comments about this a bit........non-compromizing, to say the least.

And I can understand that. I must also point out that it's not my intention to insult or annoy people by my comments, especially not those who are writing stories and makes a living out of it.

But I guess that some dissatisfaction with some of the events in the Trek series, like the destruction of Kes in "Fury", the annihilation of Data in "Nemesis" and the whole scenario in "Endgame" has made me a bit itchy when it comes to the handling of main characters in books and series.

So let's look at it this way: How many fans of the character Kes are reading the Voyager Relaunch books?

How many of the TNG fans who disliked the death of Data are reading the current TNG books?

How many Janeway fans (yes, they are many and some of them are very loyal to their favorite) will continue to read the Star Trek books if Janeway is permanently killed off?

Or to point it out more matematically: Favorite killed off=Fans stop buying books=Less profit for publisher=Books series eventually cancelled.

Not a bright scenario.

As for fan-fiction, I agree that there are a lot of crap out there where characters can be killed off at random because of certain writers dislike for certain characters, not to mention the quality of the stories which aren't always the best.

But there are some gold nuggets out there to be found, some really good stories as well.

Not to mention that I've read stories which haven't been particularily good, in fact downright embarrassing when it comes to quality and the way the stories are told but at the same time those stories have contained a certain affection for the characters which have made even a thin, badly written story acceptable in some way.

As for me, well I buy some books occasionally but I don't have the same interest for them as I had when I bought all the season 1-3 Voyager books (including one I bought on Ebay after searching for it for a long time). Now it's more like trying to keep in touch and for keeping certain "Relaunches" alive by buying some of the books.

And without being rude, I've realized that if I want to read good stories about a certain character - then I'll better write them myself!

 

[Therin of Andor]

So let's look at it this way: How many fans of the character Kes are reading the Voyager Relaunch books?

She was one of a regular cast of about ten regulars, and not a headliner, so she perhaps has less than a tenth of the total fans if they were all asked to choose one character as a favourite.

I was a Kes fan and I kept watching after "Fury".

How many of the TNG fans who disliked the death of Data are reading the current TNG books?

Me, at least. He was my favourite Star Trek regular. Data was the second most popular character, moving into the most fanmail stakes after Wil Wheaton left, IIRC. He was a headliner, so he has more than a tenth of the total fans if they were all asked to choose one character as a favourite.

How many Janeway fans (yes, they are many and some of them are very loyal to their favorite) will continue to read the Star Trek books if Janeway is permanently killed off?

Who knows. Many Janeway fans didn't bother with any of the Relaunch novels, and boast about it, so why overly-cater to them?

Or to point it out more matematically: Favorite killed off=Fans stop buying books=Less profit for publisher=Books series eventually cancelled.

So if 20% of fans were Janeway fans, and 1% of those fans regularly read the tie-ins, how does that small number of boycotters affect sales enough to cancel the publishing of "Voyager" novels?

 

[Christopher]

So let's look at it this way: How many fans of the character Kes are reading the Voyager Relaunch books?

How many of the TNG fans who disliked the death of Data are reading the current TNG books?

How many Janeway fans (yes, they are many and some of them are very loyal to their favorite) will continue to read the Star Trek books if Janeway is permanently killed off?

Or to point it out more matematically: Favorite killed off=Fans stop buying books=Less profit for publisher=Books series eventually cancelled.

I take it that you're intending to imply that the answer to the three rhetorical question is "not many." But do you have a single shred of evidence to support that assertion? Have you mounted a comprehensive, scientific survey of the Star Trek book audience past and present? Can you present a report of your methodology and a statistical breakdown of your findings?

For the record, Kes is my all-time favorite Voyager character, but that hasn't stopped me from watching or reading any subsequent VGR fiction. I loved Jadzia Dax, but that hasn't stopped me from watching the seventh season or reading DS9 fiction. I wasn't thrilled with the choice to kill Janeway off, but I've read Full Circle and enjoyed it, and I'm extremely interested to see what comes next.

Also, a casual perusal of this BBS will reveal that there are a great many people who objected to the killing off or writing out of one character or another, yet continued to watch the show or read the fiction regardless (even if it often seems they only did so in order to give themselves more to complain about). So your implication that people lose interest in a series when a character is killed off is not consistent with any evidence I'm aware of.

As for fan-fiction, I agree that there are a lot of crap out there where characters can be killed off at random because of certain writers dislike for certain characters...

Which is the difference between fan fiction and professional fiction. Fanfic is done for the amusement of the writer and so decisions are made based purely on personal preferences or desires. But professional fiction is meant for a broader audience, and so the decisions that shape it are not based solely on the author's own tastes or whims. It's a mistake to assume that a profession is no different from a hobby.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I wasn't thrilled with the choice to kill Janeway off, but I've read Full Circle and enjoyed it, and I'm extremely interested to see what comes next.

Wait you've already read Full Circle already, and we still have to wait for it! That sucks!

 

[Lynx]

I don't have any statistics in those cases but I have a feeling that it may have caused a decrease among the readers. Or to be more precise, I know some dissatisfied fans who have stopped reading those books after their favorite character was killed off or dissapeared for some reason.

As for the Janeway case, there have been a lot of debate over this on several websites and if Janeway remains permanently killed off, then I guess that many aredent Janeway fans will stop reading the books.

As for me, I stopped watching Voyager definitely after the destruction of Kes because I felt insulted by that episode. As for the Voyager Relaunch books, I've read some of them but I'm not to fond of the whole "after-Endgame" scenario even if I actually like Christie Golden, she definitely care about the characters. But if Janeway is gone, then I don't think I will continue to read them.

As for the TNG books, I haven't bothered to read any of them after "Nemesis". When it comes to books, I think that the DS9 Relaunch books are the ones most to my taste. OK, some great characters are missing which I do have some objections abouy but they did at least bring back Ro Laren who is one of my favorites.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think that the DS9 Relaunch books are the ones most to my taste. OK, some great characters are missing which I do have some objections abouy but they did at least bring back Ro Laren who is one of my favorites.

Who do they have to kill off in order to stop you reading?

 

[Sci]

For the record, I read the first two VOY post-"Endgame" novels and wasn't interested, so I didn't read Spirit Walk, nor did I care to read String Theory.

However, I will be picking up Full Circle and reading it because Christie Golden is not writing it, and because Janeway died.

Yes, that's right, the fact that Janeway died made me interested enough that I'm buying the next book. So the VOY novels have gained at least one reader as a result of the decision to kill Janeway. (And no, I don't dislike the character, either.)

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Personally I would be annoyed as hell if Janeway were brought back because frankly

1) There are other more popular characters who got crappy deaths and I don't see Pocket trying to bring them back.

2) If they do it The TrekLitverse will turn into a bad DC/Marvel ripoff.

 

[Turtletrekker]

1) There are other more popular characters who got crappy deaths and I don't see Pocket trying to bring them back.

*cough*TripTucker*cough*

 

[Hartzilla2007]

1) There are other more popular characters who got crappy deaths and I don't see Pocket trying to bring them back.

*cough*TripTucker*cough*

besides him! Plus his was credible.

 

[Christopher]

I don't have any statistics in those cases but I have a feeling that it may have caused a decrease among the readers. Or to be more precise, I know some dissatisfied fans who have stopped reading those books after their favorite character was killed off or dissapeared for some reason.

And I'm sure you know other fans who haven't. "I've got a feeling" isn't evidence, and anecdotal examples can't be extrapolated into universal rules.

As for the Janeway case, there have been a lot of debate over this on several websites and if Janeway remains permanently killed off, then I guess that many aredent Janeway fans will stop reading the books.

As KRAD says, "Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." The "ardent fans" in cases like this tend to be maybe two or three people on each board, some of whom are probably the same person posting on multiple boards. It's easy -- and all too common in all walks of life, including politics and religion -- for a very small minority of people to make so much noise that people think they represent a widespread bloc. Around here, it seems that whenever the sentiment arises about people not reading the books because Janeway died, it's always the same couple of people reiterating the same point they've made in multiple earlier threads. I don't see any evidence that "many" fans are planning to stop reading.

Heck, even if every single poster on every single bulletin board you visit gave up Trek novels, it would make a statistically insignificant dent in the novels' sales. Active participants in BBSes generally number in the dozens. Trek novels typically sell in the tens of thousands.

Ultimately, all you're saying is that you think you won't want to read the books anymore. Why not just say that? Why dress it up with all these exaggerated blanket claims that just undermine your argument with their sheer unbelievability? Make unsupported claims like that, and they will be shot down. That's inevitable on the Internet, where people have easy access to actual facts. But if you simply say "This is my own opinion," there's nothing to shoot down, nothing to disprove, because it's simply a statement of personal choice and preference. This is a case where you're better off standing alone rather than trying to convince people there's a huge mob standing behind you.

 

[Marie1]

Trek novels typically sell in the tens of thousands.

I was hoping you were going to say 100s of thousands.

Or millions!
Oh well, as long as they continue...

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Lynx, I'm curious about something. I didn't feel like going back and re-reading the entire thread to check, but did you read Before Dishonor?

Obviously as a big Janeway fan you would be upset no matter how she died..but I wondered if you read the book and were upset at the actual way that she went out.

Janeway died in a pretty lame way in what most people around here consider to be a fairly bad book. Basically what I'm getting at is, if Janeway's death had been handled in a spectacular and extremely well done fashion, comparable to Spock's death in WOK would you still be this upset about it?

Because that is what my problem with it is. Janeway, Data, Kirk, all pretty badly done and unfulfilling deaths. I have no problem seeing on of my favorite characters die if it actually seems to mean something. Just wondering if you feel the same, or if you'd be this upset at Janeway's death no matter how it went down.

 

[Thrawn]

I like deaths to be meaningless, because really, death is always random and pointless. Their lives are what matter, not how they go out.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

^ Well there is something to be said for that.

I say kill one or kill 'em all..IF you can write a damned good story doing it and make me care about it! For me at least, Janeway/Data/Kirk's deaths didn't succeed on that level. That is what bugs me about them more than anything.

 

[kimc]

^ Well since you're a big Janeway fan I'm glad it worked for you. It sure didn't for me though, and it seems to have riled up a lot of the other big Janeway fans around here. Even though I'm not a huge fan, I've watched every episode of Voyager many times and read so many books involving her..I feel SOMETHING for her. I didn't enjoy seeing her go out like that.

Most of us Janeway fans haven't been reading any of the Trek books for a while so I can see why Pocket isn't bothering with her character anymore. Thank goodness for fanfiction.

 

[Thrawn]

Most of us Janeway fans haven't been reading any of the Trek books for a while...

Really? And why might that be?

Maybe because...her story had been told and the character wasn't going interesting places?

 

[JD]

Ok here goes:
Voyager killed off Kes who was one of my favorites and I kept watching.
DS9 killed Jadzia who was one of my favorites and I kept watching.
DS9PF got rid of Shar, one of my favorite new characters and I'm reading it.
Nemesis killed Data and I'm reading the TNGR.
I haven't read the VoyagerPF yet (mostly due to the fact that I did not like the little bit of Homecoming I read, and the bad reviews) but I plan on starting now. It's partly because I'm curious to see if Kirsten Beyer does a better job, and because I'm very curious to see how they handle Janeways death.

 

[euphorik]

How many Janeway fans (yes, they are many and some of them are very loyal to their favorite) will continue to read the Star Trek books if Janeway is permanently killed off?

i'd start reading them if they killed her.

 

[Dayton Ward]

I say kill one or kill 'em all...

Now we're talking.

As I once posted during a previous occasion when this topic came up:

Kill everybody. Then, resurrect them and kill them all again.

Ship corridors should run red (or green, or pink, etc.) with the blood of the vanquished. Entire worlds will tremble at the approach of he who emerges from the Darkness to unleash unparalleled death and destruction.

Legends will spring forth, songs will be sung, and children will cower in fear when stories of this Unequaled Reign of Terror are told in nights to come.

And standing amid the carnage, weapon of choice held high in triumph, will be Reginald Barclay.

That'll teach people to mock his holodeck programs, damn it.

Oh, and if that's not enough for 75 books, we can always add a subplot where...I don't know...a giant space thingee is threatening the entire known galaxy.

And it will not be canon.

Rather, it will transcend canon.

But, you won't have to read it to enjoy Articles of the Federation.