Janeway Died? In Which Book?

[AuntKate]

Janeway had a history of jumping into situations she was unprepared for, damn-the-consequences, damn-all-advice-to-the-contrary. It was about time that she finally bought the farm as a result of that sort of behavior. They're still supposed to be humans, not superheroes, aren't they?

You could replace the name "Janeway" with "Kirk" and the description would fit. And apparently, they are supposed to be superheroes. If they face a no-win situation, they're supposed to "rewrite the program," and if they don't, pee on them, I suppose.

I still believe that the there is a lack of imagination when it comes to writing Voyager novels, and I know there is a lack of priority for them (since there have been so few published since the series ended nearly eight years ago). The "Janeway story has been told" excuse is ridiculous and short-sighted IMHO.

There are four different Star Trek series, so why not write Voyager differently? Do all the novels have to focus on living and working inside the Federation? Why not have Janeway round up her misfits and malcontents and head out to deep space in a quasi-Starfleet manner, similar to what we saw with the series?

There is plenty for the "common" Star Trek reader to enjoy with TOS, TNG, and DS9. Why not branch out with the Voyager novels and appeal to a different set of readers?

 

[Ktrek]

There are four different Star Trek series, so why not write Voyager differently? Do all the novels have to focus on living and working inside the Federation? Why not have Janeway round up her misfits and malcontents and head out to deep space in a quasi-Starfleet manner, similar to what we saw with the series?

There is plenty for the "common" Star Trek reader to enjoy with TOS, TNG, and DS9. Why not branch out with the Voyager novels and appeal to a different set of readers?

Ummmm.....Because Janeway is now dead? After all that is the title of this thread! We don't need Janeway to tell good Voyager stories. All we need is a good author with a good idea.

Kevin

 

[Sci]

There are four different Star Trek series,

Erm, no. There are, let's see...

TOS
VAN
SGZ
TNG
DS9
VOY
NF
SCE/COE
GKN/KE
TTN

To say nothing of ongoing threads with characters like the Bacco Administration or Spock's Rebellion that don't have regular series.

so why not write Voyager differently?

I'm not sure how killing the captain doesn't constitute writing it differently.

Do all the novels have to focus on living and working inside the Federation? Why not have Janeway round up her misfits and malcontents and head out to deep space in a quasi-Starfleet manner, similar to what we saw with the series?

1. If it's similar to what we saw with the series, wouldn't that be giving you something you've already seen?

2. How is that different from what, say, TNG or TTN are doing?

3. Why would they all chose that, especially since a third or more of the crew weren't explorers and never wanted to be away from home?

There is plenty for the "common" Star Trek reader to enjoy with TOS, TNG, and DS9. Why not branch out with the Voyager novels and appeal to a different set of readers?

Looks to me like they did, and some VOY folk just don't like what that meant.

 

[Thrawn]

You know, I had a good post going here, until I hit "preview" and saw below my nascent post that Sci had pretty much already covered it for me.

Well done.

I'll just add two things. One. Of COURSE there are dramatic possibilities with Janeway left alive; a good writer could easily write a good story with Janeway left alive. There are also dramatic possibilities if Chakotay swears off technology and lives as a hermit on a colony where he never sees any of our regulars again, or if Paris is infected by an alien virus that turns him female. There are dramatic possibilities in any one of 10 million plots. Being a writer or editor, one does not look for the rare elusive beast, the dramatic possibility. This was not a failure of imagination. This was a decision that THIS story was the best one that could be told. And of course you're allowed to disagree, but don't you think it might be a good idea to, I dunno, read it first?

And two. Voyager has, over the past 5 years, seen more books published than Enterprise or any original series aside from SCE (which was a monthly series of ebooks, published in a different format). Evidence: http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2236995&postcount=62

Which is about how popular the Voyager TV show was, compared to all the rest of the aired shows. So what, exactly, are you complaining about?

 

[captcalhoun]

I still believe that the there is a lack of imagination when it comes to writing Voyager novels, and I know there is a lack of priority for them (since there have been so few published since the series ended nearly eight years ago).

it's got nothing to do with so-called priorities and everything to do with the sole author of post-finale VGR novels going off and doing other stuff until someone finally got another author in.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Sadly (to me), I don't think Janeway is gone for good. The name of the first new Voyager story coming up after her death is "Unworthy". I got the immediate feeling that that was meant to apply to Janeway's replacement - probably some Jellico-like jerk.

So either she'll be back, or Chakotay will move up shortly. But I'd bet on the former.

 

[Sci]

Sadly (to me), I don't think Janeway is gone for good. The name of the first new Voyager story coming up after her death is "Unworthy". I got the immediate feeling that that was meant to apply to Janeway's replacement - probably some Jellico-like jerk.

Erm. On what basis are you making that supposition?

 

[Steve Roby]

Janeway had a history of jumping into situations she was unprepared for, damn-the-consequences, damn-all-advice-to-the-contrary. It was about time that she finally bought the farm as a result of that sort of behavior. They're still supposed to be humans, not superheroes, aren't they?

You could replace the name "Janeway" with "Kirk" and the description would fit.

No, you couldn't. Not if you've actually watched TOS and not just one or two movies. See KRAD's article "Just Following Orders" on the "Kirk the maverick" myth, in the November '08 issue of Star Trek magazine.

 

[Christopher]

There are four different Star Trek series,

Erm, no. There are, let's see...

TOS
VAN
SGZ
TNG
DS9
VOY
NF
SCE/COE
GKN/KE
TTN

You forgot ENT. Also, SGZ hasn't been an active series since 2004, unless you count the SGZ-ish stories in Tales of the Dominion War and Mirror Universe: Shards and Shadows. Plus there's MU and MyrU and TLE, maybe.

it's got nothing to do with so-called priorities and everything to do with the sole author of post-finale VGR novels going off and doing other stuff until someone finally got another author in.

Also due to the loss of the original editor of the post-finale VGR series. It took time to sort out who would be taking over both positions, and then it took time to figure out a worthwhile new direction for them to take and to craft the work with care. And if you ask me, Full Circle will be worth the wait.

Sadly (to me), I don't think Janeway is gone for good. The name of the first new Voyager story coming up after her death is "Unworthy". I got the immediate feeling that that was meant to apply to Janeway's replacement - probably some Jellico-like jerk.

So either she'll be back, or Chakotay will move up shortly. But I'd bet on the former.

Boy, it's amazing how much people can read into a single word.

I'm pretty sure both Kirsten and Margaret have said online that they have no interest in resurrecting Janeway in the foreseeable future.

 

[William Leisner]

Janeway had a history of jumping into situations she was unprepared for, damn-the-consequences, damn-all-advice-to-the-contrary. It was about time that she finally bought the farm as a result of that sort of behavior. They're still supposed to be humans, not superheroes, aren't they?

You could replace the name "Janeway" with "Kirk" and the description would fit. And apparently, they are supposed to be superheroes.

Gee, what ever became of Kirk in the end? Hmmm...

Oh, yeah: he's effing dead, too. Crushed under a rusty bridge on a deserted planet. Proven perfectly human. Tsk.

Hey, maybe Kate Mulgrew can start writing novels, where KJ comes back as an undead ninja, kicking ass and taking names and showing the rest of the 24th century how to get things done!

But, what do I know? I'm just a writer with a lack of imagination...

 

[ClayinCA]

^ I'd like it made clear that I have no "Janeway Hate." I simply created the avatar as a riff on the previous Tucker "Not. Dead." idiocy from a few years ago.

and which i see Clay's now using...

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes by doing so, BTW. I just really liked it and figured I was tired of the Srah Palin "Nope" avatar I'd been using...

See KRAD's article "Just Following Orders" on the "Kirk the maverick" myth, in the November '08 issue of Star Trek magazine.

A fantastic article, by the way. It's nice to explode some of those cliches that people keep trying to hang on Kirk.

 

[KRAD]

See KRAD's article "Just Following Orders" on the "Kirk the maverick" myth, in the November '08 issue of Star Trek magazine.

A fantastic article, by the way. It's nice to explode some of those cliches that people keep trying to hang on Kirk.

Thanks so much! That was a rant that had burbling for years, and it was nice of Paul to give me an outlet for it. (And an outlet I got paid for! Bonus! )

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

(sniksder said)
(Sorry "her story being told" is a lame excuse to use..)

Margaret took ten minutes of her time to explain her decision to some guy who wandered up and asked a simple question. Her answer was well thought out and quite reasonable. Janeway's character had done everything that she was created to do. She had gotten her people home and settled her outstanding plot threads ( her fiance ) and been promoted to Admiral. Without some kind of contrived plotting she would not realistically be part of the common adventures of the starship Voyager. By killing her they could use that to create drama with the remaining characters and explore their reactions.

Which is a sound choice. If the character has reached the pinnacle of his/her potential, then it's best to allow the character to fade away and allow other characters to come forward. Clark's made a logical editorial decision, imho. I wished that filmed Trek had made more decisions like that instead of letting characters linger for far too long, like Riker.

 

[captcalhoun]

See KRAD's article "Just Following Orders" on the "Kirk the maverick" myth, in the November '08 issue of Star Trek magazine.

A fantastic article, by the way. It's nice to explode some of those cliches that people keep trying to hang on Kirk.

Thanks so much! That was a rant that had burbling for years, and it was nice of Paul to give me an outlet for it. (And an outlet I got paid for! Bonus! )

is it online any where?

 

[TGTheodore]

There is plenty for the "common" Star Trek reader to enjoy with TOS, TNG, and DS9. Why not branch out with the Voyager novels and appeal to a different set of readers?

Ummmm.....Because Janeway is now dead? After all that is the title of this thread! We don't need Janeway to tell good Voyager stories. All we need is a good author with a good idea.

Kevin

You're assuming novels only go forward in the "timeline". There can be infinite Voyager novels with Janeway alive. Stories that just haven't been told yet. TOS Lit has been doing that for 40+ years.

--Ted

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Boy, it's amazing how much people can read into a single word.

Isn't it? Holy cow.

For the record, the title Unworthy was chosen for its thematic relevance to the entire story, not as a description of a single character.

And thanks again, Chris, for kind words about Full Circle.

Best,
Kirsten

 

[Therin of Andor]

Boy, it's amazing how much people can read into a single word.

Isn't it? Holy cow.

Actually, I reckon "Destiny" and "Full Circle" are also titles that equally suggest a hint of Janeway's return to a desperate, grieving Mulgrew fan.

 

[AuntKate]

Kirk may be dead, but by my count, there have been about 30 TOS novels published since 2001 (not counting the Shatnerverse novels), so his "grieving fans" haven't really had to do without him, have they?

And, please, don't assume that the fan of a character is a fan of the actor. Mulgrew fans have had the opportunity to see her perform in many plays, personal appearances, and guest spots since Voyager went off the air. In contrast, Janeway fans have had very little chance to enjoy reading about their favorite captain--seven novels since 2001, if you include Book 3 of String Theory in which she was mostly in a coma.

Janeway is the most popular character in Voyager, and yet Pocket Books' editors/writers decide they don't need her. It boggles the imagination. Agatha Christie detested Hercule Poirot, but she had enough sense not to kill him off. Can you imagine Sue Grafton killing off Kinsey Millhone? Or Tom Clancy killing off Jack Ryan?

Voyager without Janeway? Forget about it. IMHO

 

[Christopher]

Actually, I reckon "Destiny" and "Full Circle" are also titles that equally suggest a hint of Janeway's return to a desperate, grieving Mulgrew fan.

You know, I remember that -- in the months leading up to Destiny, a lot of people were latching onto the fact that the word "destiny" was used once or twice in the final Janeway/Lady Q scene in BD, and from that they assumed that Janeway's demise was merely the setup for a Janeway-centric Destiny trilogy that would culminate in her triumphant resurrection, or some such thing. It was funny and sad to see them so completely off-base.

(Part of the reason that was wrong is that Destiny was not the original planned title of the trilogy, so when PAD used the word "destiny" in BD, he would've had no idea that the upcoming trilogy would have the same name. I think it went through several titles -- the one on the outline I got was Scions -- before everyone involved settled on Destiny.)

See, this is why resurrecting dead characters is a bad thing. It's been done so many times that fans these days expect any character death to be merely a setup for their resurrection, so instead of really feeling the death as a loss, they approach it merely as a temporary setback. And the emotional impact of death as a story element in serial fiction is undermined as a result.

Although it will be entertaining to see how many future Trek novel titles will be interpreted as "proof" of Janeway's imminent resurrection.

 

[William Leisner]

Janeway is the most popular character in Voyager, and yet Pocket Books' editors/writers decide they don't need her. It boggles the imagination.

Wait... first you said killing Janeway displayed a lack of imagination... now you're implying that it's too much imagination? I confoozled now...

Can you imagine Sue Grafton killing off Kinsey Millhone? Or Tom Clancy killing off Jack Ryan?

Yep. With ease. (Of course, you're comparing apples and trout here, but we'll let that pass.)

Voyager without Janeway? Forget about it. IMHO

Y'know... once you've posted the same stubborn and unyielding opinion fifty times, it's time to drop the "H". There ain't nothing humble in constantly droning, "I'm right I'm right I'm right I'm right"...