Indeed it was
And I have to say that Lyndsay Ballard is one of my favorite guest characters on Voyager. She was three dimensional, funny and interesing
It is really a pity that we did not see her again
The actress did also a great job
Janeway Dating Lyndsay Ballard... The Heck?
- Thread starter Adm_Hawthorne
- Start date
And I have to say that Lyndsay Ballard is one of my favorite guest characters on Voyager. She was three dimensional, funny and interesing
It is really a pity that we did not see her again
The actress did also a great job
For J/7, start with "Scorpion". It's pretty much all LesYay.
From "The Gift"
Janeway is walking out of the cargobay after giving Seven a comm badge
Seven: Red
Janeway: What?
Seven: The child you spoke of. Her favorite color was Red.
Janeway smirks and leaves.
Okay... let's review. Janeway is a redhead. Janeway wears red.
Watch the scene. Talking about it doesn't do it justice.
For J/Torres, go for the first 5 episodes of season one and "Barge of the Dead".
^ Thanks for the episode recs. I'll make a project of it, I think.
You know, I was thinking just there (while procrastinating over my sixth cup of tea of the day), sometimes my kinks get in the way of my political sensibilities
Because, right, on one hand I totally understand it when people complain that Janeway's rather lacking love life is problematic. Pop culture's not very good at seeing (slightly) older women as sexual beings. This is sexist and ageist and wrong.
On the other hand, I totally dig the resulting ambiguity, because then I can pretend that they're just very discreet about their wild gay shenanigans, and have a field day with subtext.
You know, I was thinking just there (while procrastinating over my sixth cup of tea of the day), sometimes my kinks get in the way of my political sensibilities
Because, right, on one hand I totally understand it when people complain that Janeway's rather lacking love life is problematic. Pop culture's not very good at seeing (slightly) older women as sexual beings. This is sexist and ageist and wrong.
On the other hand, I totally dig the resulting ambiguity, because then I can pretend that they're just very discreet about their wild gay shenanigans, and have a field day with subtext.
In "Voyager Conspiracy", I would have practically killed for Janeway to just have kissed Seven in that shuttle.
So, although I totally get what you're saying, I would have felt a lot more fulfilled as a viewer and Janeway fan if she'd had some real on-screen romance that lasted longer than "Workforce".
So, although I totally get what you're saying, I would have felt a lot more fulfilled as a viewer and Janeway fan if she'd had some real on-screen romance that lasted longer than "Workforce".
*sigh* I really had convinced myself they were going to kiss in Voyager Conspiracy, guess I forgot it was Voyager I was watching and not the L word. It's obvious they would never let Seven and Janeway kiss, but I think Author, Author was a missed opportunity for Janeway (as the EMH) and Seven (as Three of Eight) to kiss without it being gay.
Ohhh... that would have been a good one to do it.
Like I've said before, even I thought those two were going to kiss in Voyager Conspiracy, and most J/7 goes *wooooosh* over my head. I had (and still have) a tough time imagining them in a romantic relationship, but the subtext in that scene was too much for even me to miss.
I still remember watching that scene for the first time with my jaw dropped open, because I was convinced I was about to see the J/7ers win the shipper war.
I still remember watching that scene for the first time with my jaw dropped open, because I was convinced I was about to see the J/7ers win the shipper war.
I'm curious did either actor every comment about any subtext between the two characters? I know some of the actors on DS9 deliberately played up subtext between male characters and mention this in interviews.. any tidbits from Mulgrew or Ryan?
If you ever spend two minutes or more in a room with Janeway, you can expect the following to occur:
A) She will stare at you very intently.
B) She will invade your personal space.
C) She will place her hands all over you.
D) She will talk to you while her lips are about a micron away from your face.
Since I'm rewatching from the beginning now I'm taking deliberate note.. and this is really her modus operandi with everyone. It's a very powerful tool in leadership I think, especially for this crew cut off from the people they would look to for special attention/support/succor normally.
Kate has said in a few interviews when straight up asked about it that she was aware that some people have seen the subtext there. But, I don't recall ever seeing anyone say they played it up on purpose.
These recent Janeway threads make me love Janeway even more. She has always been my favorite captain.
I'm definately in this camp with Seven, Torres, and especially Kim. Kim is the only one she actually told us/him that she felt that way towards him.
KIM: You reacted like any Captain would.
JANEWAY: Probably, but I can't help wondering if my response would have been the same if it had been, say, Tom Paris instead of you. Oh don't get me wrong, I still would have been angry and disappointed, but I wouldn't have been surprised.
KIM: Because Ensign Kim doesn't break the rules.
JANEWAY: The truth is, Harry, I think about you differently than the rest of the crew. Which isn't to suggest that I don't care deeply about each of them. You came to me fresh out of the Academy, wide-eyed with excitement about your first deep space assignment. From that first day, I've always felt more protective of you than the others.
As for subtext, it wasn't subtle at all between Janeway and Torres in "Barge of the dead." Janeway and Miral were quoting each other. Janeway (in Torres's comatose mind) was calling her by her Mom's pet name. On the Barge, Miral showed up in Janeway's starfleet uniform. Again, when you look at shipper vids between J/T, they invariably include that conference room scene where Janeway tries to deny B'Elanna's request to repeat her near death experience, and B'Elanna turns on the violins and pulls Janeway's Maternal AND Child's heart strings until Janeway relents. The "pictures" can be easily misread as J/T, but the words are completely J=Mom/T=Daughter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7VW...t&p=48C1916551C2C763&playnext_from=PL&index=1
And since I've long seen the J/7 relationship as a Mom/Daughter relationship, I never expected that "kiss" at the end of the Delta Flyer scene in Voy Conspir. I smiled at it because I recognized Janeway using all her powers to pull her daugher from her delusion... and succeeding.
"All I'm asking... is that you TRUST me again."
That was why she came to kneel in front of Seven. She knows that Seven isn't B'Elanna (end of Prototype) or Harry (end of Timeless), Seven wouldn't welcome the touchy feely Janeway at that moment. But she did the next best thing when confronting a scared child. She came down to her level, seemingly putting herself at Seven's mercy and not vice a versa, and she welcomed her prodigal "home".
"Voyager... Two to beam out."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDa4...t&p=48C1916551C2C763&playnext_from=PL&index=2
If you ever spend two minutes or more in a room with Janeway, you can expect the following to occur:
A) She will stare at you very intently.
B) She will invade your personal space.
C) She will place her hands all over you.
D) She will talk to you while her lips are about a micron away from your face.
Since I'm rewatching from the beginning now I'm taking deliberate note.. and this is really her modus operandi with everyone. It's a very powerful tool in leadership I think, especially for this crew cut off from the people they would look to for special attention/support/succor normally.
Yeah, it might be interesting to rewatch and take some kind of informal tally on how many times she paws at someone per episode.
I always found that a very nice part of her character, too. Heck, she does all four things on that checklist to Noah Lessing, of all people, even though she's about two seconds away from killing him. 
If I had to die, though, what a way to go
I always saw it as maternal too. At that moment Seven was a frightened child and touching her at that moment would have been the worst possible thing to do. However, by bringing herself to Seven's level, Janeway was demonstrating that she was not a threat and could be trusted.
Definitely a powerful scene.
I must say, I hate those lesbian videos of Seven and Janeway. I'm not against lesbians, no, it's just... Janeway wasn't one. She was engaged (until he ran off with some other woman, pah!), so that was an obvious clue. And she did kiss that other alien guy. And that holo irish bloke. Really!
So, to be honest, I think it's just trying to promote the fact that she could be a lesbian. But, come on...
So, to be honest, I think it's just trying to promote the fact that she could be a lesbian. But, come on...
Well, firstly, non-lesbian queer women exist. *Waves a greeting*
But also, I always think with shipping - you dig what you dig, you know? It's subjective. It's as individual as who you fancy IRL. Some get it, some don't. Best not to sweat it and just let other people get their kicks howsoever they choose.
There have been times when I thought touchy feely Mama Janeway should have come out full force, like at the end of Drone when "One" is dying and Janeway is nowhere to be seen. THAT was a "facepalm moment/out of character moment" if ever there was one.
At other times, like the Delta Flyer scene in "Voy Conspiracy", or the fireplace scene in "The Omega Directive", Janeway's restraint is mastery itself. She leans in, speaks low and DOESN'T touch Seven.
I loved it in "Protoype" when she touches B'Elanna's knee, or "Emanations" when she touches Harry, but its several years ("Imperfection", "Repentence") before she starts giving Seven a "one armed hug, or touches Seven's shoulder".
Its almost like the difference between dealing with your own child, vs dealing with a foster child wounded from her last home (the BORG collective). You have to go so much slower to gain their trust.
Near the end of Season 7's "Repentence" I nearly screamed at the TV for another OOC moment for Janeway. They had just told Seven and her prisoner friend that he was going home to be executed. The prison guard leads the prisoner away, and Janeway looks across the room at Seven then turns to LEAVE.
ARGH! Not right! Not Janeway, not at THIS stage of their relationship! (Recall this was after Janeway called her "a friend" several months earlier in "Imperfection".)
Well, I screamed too soon. Janeway came back a couple days later.
Advance to 6:01 for the full scene.
http://www.youtube.com/user/startrekepisodes1#p/u/228/kyWey9CmK7Y
Or just read this.
When Seven turns away from her Captain, Janeway comments...
JANEWAY: Everyone grieves in their own way. If you want to talk you know where to find me.
The Captain waits several seconds.
SEVEN: It's unfair.
JANEWAY: I think so too, Seven, but we have to try not to judge their system.
SEVEN: That's not what I meant. Iko was executed for taking a single life. As a drone I took thousands, but I was never punished.
Janeway walks across the room to stand behind Seven, placing a compassionate famous hand on Seven's shoulder... (@ 7:03....)
and she says...
JANEWAY: You lost twenty years of your life to the Borg. I'd say that's punishment enough.
Now THAT's the Mama Janeway I know and love.
As for shippers, to each his/her own.
For the J/7 shippers please understand that one of the reasons we "Mama/Daughter" types squick at J/7 is the same reason we squick at C/7."
Bear with me... since I think of J/7 as Mom/Daughter, and in my mind I believe there was a J/C even if only on New Earth, then C/7 seems incestuous. Kind of like Woody Allen and Mia Farrow's foster daughter.
If one follows that logic, I would also see J/7 as incestuous.
As for the J/7 vids, I like many of the J/7 vids that just show the "relationship" without the photoshopping. (To be fair, I don't like the photo shopping on a lot of the J/C vids either.)
I'm recalling one particularly fantastic J/7 music vid, and when I watch it the vid could be shippy or Mom/Daughter... Whichever way the videographer intended is of no interest to me, its simply excellent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-tX...t&p=48C1916551C2C763&playnext_from=PL&index=9
aaaaaaaaahh...what to say. Someone already replied about the realities of shipping. An in universe explanation would be that she does like women as well as men, just hasn't ended up with one yet that we have seen on screen. Plenty of people like this, no drama to it.
Similar threads
- Locked
