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janeway and Books

Since you seem to be fixated on the papyrus, which was never meant to be an exact time comparison, how about another one. Janeway and her books are like a 2016 cook preferring to cook over an open hearth, as they did in the 18th century, rather than use a modern kitchen with modern implements.

And, of course what I said about how print books will be in the 24th century is a supposition, but it's a logical one, as I can't imagine late 20th and early 21st century culture and attitudes will be frozen and brought forward 300 years unchanged.

Yes's, billions of print books have been published, but I can't imagine them all surviving into the 24th century. Books, especially paperbacks, were never meant to survive that long. Indeed, I still have some college hardbound textbooks from when I started college 40 years ago that are in sad shape and paperbacks that have fallen apart altogether. I imagine some luxury, leather bound books meant to be heirlooms might survive that long with careful infrequent handling, but the average book from now, no.

There is also the environmental issue, too. I imagine future generations will seek to take better care of the Earth, which will mean cutting down fewer trees to make paper, and to re-forest certain areas. This means fewer print books.

What I think is that the writers simply goofed here and just didn't anticipate the invention of readers less than ten years after the end of Voyager. Nor did their use of the pads anticipate how we use readers and tablets now. One example is the episode where Icheb goes to stay with his parents and Seven of Nine gives him several pads, indicating that they are several books on a variety of subjects, so it was one book=one pad, instead of all the books being on one pad. Similarly, when the logs of Seven's parents were downloaded, it produced a boxful of pads, instead of them all going into one pad. The writers treated the pads as if they corresponded to the floppy disks of 20 years ago, which indeed held very limited amounts of data.
 
I would be very sad if there were ever a time in the future when humans could not experience books in their original, bound form. Though, being Gen X, I grew up with a rotary phone and thought a tricorder was pretty awesome..
 
Since you seem to be fixated on the papyrus, which was never meant to be an exact time comparison, how about another one. Janeway and her books are like a 2016 cook preferring to cook over an open hearth, as they did in the 18th century, rather than use a modern kitchen with modern implements.

And, of course what I said about how print books will be in the 24th century is a supposition, but it's a logical one, as I can't imagine late 20th and early 21st century culture and attitudes will be frozen and brought forward 300 years unchanged.

Yes's, billions of print books have been published, but I can't imagine them all surviving into the 24th century. Books, especially paperbacks, were never meant to survive that long. Indeed, I still have some college hardbound textbooks from when I started college 40 years ago that are in sad shape and paperbacks that have fallen apart altogether. I imagine some luxury, leather bound books meant to be heirlooms might survive that long with careful infrequent handling, but the average book from now, no.

There is also the environmental issue, too. I imagine future generations will seek to take better care of the Earth, which will mean cutting down fewer trees to make paper, and to re-forest certain areas. This means fewer print books.

What I think is that the writers simply goofed here and just didn't anticipate the invention of readers less than ten years after the end of Voyager. Nor did their use of the pads anticipate how we use readers and tablets now. One example is the episode where Icheb goes to stay with his parents and Seven of Nine gives him several pads, indicating that they are several books on a variety of subjects, so it was one book=one pad, instead of all the books being on one pad. Similarly, when the logs of Seven's parents were downloaded, it produced a boxful of pads, instead of them all going into one pad. The writers treated the pads as if they corresponded to the floppy disks of 20 years ago, which indeed held very limited amounts of data.

1. The open hearth analogy doesn't really work either, as you are comparing a cooking method from 2 centuries ago with books which have persisted for millenia. You also mention books being brought forward 300 years unchanged as a 'cultural attitude' but a book is just...a book. 300 years isn't actually that long a duration: pocket watches were invented in the 16th century and people are still using them, largely unchanged.

2. While I agree that many of todays print books probably won't surivive into Janeway's time [although, again, many will: I have a few that are over 100 years old in my own collection] it doesn't have any bearing on new ones being printed well into the 21st, 22nd and 23rd centuries. With replication technology, books 'surviving' from the present would be an irrelevance as it would be simple to just have the computer replicate you one in moments. As such, your point about any Environmental issues is mute. Why would they be cutting down trees for paper when they have replicators?

I stand by my initial point that Janeway [Picard, Archer, Kirk...] reading paper books isn't really that remarkable. It is likely to be one technology that will still persist well into the future.
 
There's an implication, although never outright stated, that all digital information was destroyed in World War III (or soon thereafter). This could be why records are fragmentary for the 20th century and all that.

So, perhaps Zefram Cochrane is of a generation that grew up with tablets, and had to adjust to paper books again. Across the world, in the post-atomic horror east, that generation lasted a bit longer. Henry Archer may have grown up with paper books, and was around when digitized media and PADDs got back in vogue, but he (and others like him) still pushed their love of bound literature onto their children (Jonathan Archer's generation).

It could be this fear of a future digital loss that prompted further generations to proscribe the necessity of printed media onto at least the classical works of literature. We know in The Original Series that they seemed to abandon tablet media for printed out material in unusual instances, but I'm willing to squint and ignore most of that. It could be a holdover from a bygone era, or perhaps there is some hidden technology there (a "book" that could reshuffle its words).

Picard is a student of ancient history. His book-loving matches what we know of the character. Janeway, too, might have a streak of this, perhaps brought on by relatives (helped out by a replicator able to easily make books). A love of books doesn't equate to a love of the 20th century. It could be a love of the 21st century, or a love of the 18th century (classical music period).
 
A love of books doesn't equate to a love of the 20th century. It could be a love of the 21st century, or a love of the 18th century (classical music period).
Yes, or a love of even earlier centuries when the codex (a bound book, as opposed to a scroll) was widely used.

In Europe, codices were the preferred method of storing textual data by the 300s. We know that Janeway is a Dante enthusiast--one of the books she is seen reading in the series is Dante's Vita Nuova, in "Latent Image"--and Dante lived in the late 1200s and early 1300s, over a thousand years before Janeway's time (and seven hundred years before ours) but about a thousand years after bound books became prevalent in Europe; which puts the longevity of the book format into perspective. Most likely, she chooses a book over a PADD in "Latent Image" because she loves Dante's time period and associates books with it, not because she loves the twentieth century and associates a bound copy of Vita Nuova with our time. Granted, it appears Janeway is reading a printed copy of Vita Nuova, not a twelfth-century handwritten codex. But the difference between a handwritten codex and a printed book is not as drastic as the difference between a book and a PADD. It's more like the difference between a PADD and a comparatively primitive iPad.
 
Yes, or a love of even earlier centuries when the codex (a bound book, as opposed to a scroll) was widely used.

In Europe, codices were the preferred method of storing textual data by the 300s. We know that Janeway is a Dante enthusiast--one of the books she is seen reading in the series is Dante's Vita Nuova, in "Latent Image"--and Dante lived in the late 1200s and early 1300s, over a thousand years before Janeway's time (and seven hundred years before ours) but about a thousand years after bound books became prevalent in Europe; which puts the longevity of the book format into perspective. Most likely, she chooses a book over a PADD in "Latent Image" because she loves Dante's time period and associates books with it, not because she loves the twentieth century and associates a bound copy of Vita Nuova with our time. Granted, it appears Janeway is reading a printed copy of Vita Nuova, not a twelfth-century handwritten codex. But the difference between a handwritten codex and a printed book is not as drastic as the difference between a book and a PADD. It's more like the difference between a PADD and a comparatively primitive iPad.

Plus, the differences between a 12th-century handwritten codex and a semi-modern printed book are legibility and language. Janeway might like the feel of reading something from Dante's time, but doesn't really want to study each page for hours on end and try to translate Dante's medieval proto-Italian language.
 
I distinctly remember Kirk (in the movies at least) and Picard both reading books on a regular basis. As well as other characters, captains and otherwise.

Not sure what the big reveal here is supposed to be. Not everyone likes reading things digitally even today in the real world when digital ebooks are actually a thing. That includes kids who've grown up with them. I mean, how is it any different than listening to vinyl over a CD or an iPod?

When you throw replicators into the mix, why not go back to reading real books if for no other reason than the atmosphere of it all.
 
I distinctly remember Kirk (in the movies at least) and Picard both reading books on a regular basis. As well as other characters, captains and otherwise.

Not sure what the big reveal here is supposed to be. Not everyone likes reading things digitally even today in the real world when digital ebooks are actually a thing. That includes kids who've grown up with them. I mean, how is it any different than listening to vinyl over a CD or an iPod?

When you throw replicators into the mix, why not go back to reading real books if for no other reason than the atmosphere of it all.
I agree. I own 78 rpm albums (unfortunately don't have the ability to play them anymore since my mother got rid of her old stereo, but just found out my landlady has an old 78 player squirreled away!), 45's LP's tapes, CD's and am right now listening to my i-tunes library. There is nothing cooler than listening to or reading what was written on the original medium it was distributed on.
 
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