Janeway - an inspiration to woman?

[kimc]

"Just be careful not to be authoritative and in charge, because then you will be "bossy and bitchy."

Don’t blame men for recognizing that a woman is being “bossy and bitchy” when she is in fact being “bossy and bitchy”, which is all too often the case in our modern societies.

I was ready to dislike “Voyager” when I discovered that they were casting a woman as captain. I was expecting an unrealistic captain that outfought men and governed by intimidation. Instead, we got a very realistic captain that was in charge by dent of her authority. She never had to be more manly than the men--she remained feminine and still commanded respect. “Voyager” became one of my favorites.

While it's nice you appreciate Janeway I do find it interesting that men are never called bossy or bitchy - which by the way they can be. They're just never called on it.

 

[Zameaze]

"Just be careful not to be authoritative and in charge, because then you will be "bossy and bitchy."

Don’t blame men for recognizing that a woman is being “bossy and bitchy” when she is in fact being “bossy and bitchy”, which is all too often the case in our modern societies.

I was ready to dislike “Voyager” when I discovered that they were casting a woman as captain. I was expecting an unrealistic captain that outfought men and governed by intimidation. Instead, we got a very realistic captain that was in charge by dent of her authority. She never had to be more manly than the men--she remained feminine and still commanded respect. “Voyager” became one of my favorites.

While it's nice you appreciate Janeway I do find it interesting that men are never called bossy or bitchy - which by the way they can be. They're just never called on it.

Apparently you don’t have any gay male friends. They are forever calling other men 'bitchy'.

 

[Praetor]

Programming languages are still languages so if you're good with languages you can write code. A lot of software developers speak more than one language as well as play a musical instrument (in my case it's French/piano).

Sure, there are the math folks who write complex algorithms and encryption codes but that's a whole other branch.

The thing is it didn't occur to me until later that I could write code because that's a guy thing, right?

It's funny you say that; when I was in school the accepted "general assumption" was that girls were better at math than boys. And, as a boy, I can't carry a tune on an instrument have no patience for code-writing. So hat's off to you.

(As an aside, I notice you Brits like "whilst." It's endearing. )

Desperately thinking of how to reply using 'whilst' as much as possible to support the OP and keep up my country's posh grammatical traits ........

Got it. Whilst not having a high powered career like Amy or kimc, Janeway is fairly inspiring to me as a woman because she gets her own way an awful lots whilst remaining likeable.[/QUOTE]

Well done.

Just be careful not to be authoritative and in charge, because then you will be "bossy and bitchy."

See, I've never got that. Almost all of my bosses/coworkers have been female, and I never, personally, saw them as "bossy or bitchy" as the consequence of being in control. Maybe I'm too well-adjusted...?

I've always seen an artistic beauty to maths; the melding of the simple and the complex, the real and the imaginary, the infinite leading to the absence and the absence leading to the infinite... There's more art in that than I can ever see in a painting.

Damn! I'm failing in my attempt to be like Mayweather. He would never say two sentences at a time.

See, that's why I like your graphs - I am decidedly not a math person, but I do appreciate the beauty of the patterns therein.

 

[kimc]

Apparently you don’t have any gay male friends. They are forever calling other men 'bitchy'.

Perhaps. That doesn't mean that men (gay or straight) can't be bitchy.

 

[Praetor]

Oh, men can be bitchy. They just don't normally call it "bitchy." Except the gay ones, like myself.

 

[exodus]

Oh, men can be bitchy. They just don't normally call it "bitchy." Except the gay ones, like myself.

Yep, the straight ones are "bastards".
A word that seems to be going out of style unfortunately.

 

[Zameaze]

Apparently you don’t have any gay male friends. They are forever calling other men 'bitchy'.

Perhaps. That doesn't mean that men (gay or straight) can't be bitchy.

OK, in deference to our feminists here, we will man up and no longer call men invidious, irritable, or cranky--they shall henceforth be called 'bitchy'. Also men will not be referred to as handsome, they shall be 'pretty'. And to leave no stone unturned to make the ladies happy, manhole covers shall forevermore be 'personhole covers'. There, I feel much better.

 

[kimc]

Apparently you don’t have any gay male friends. They are forever calling other men 'bitchy'.

Perhaps. That doesn't mean that men (gay or straight) can't be bitchy.

OK, in deference to our feminists here, we will man up and no longer call men invidious, irritable, or cranky--they shall henceforth be called 'bitchy'. Also men will not be referred to as handsome, they shall be 'pretty'. And to leave no stone unturned to make the ladies happy, manhole covers shall forevermore be 'personhole covers'. There, I feel much better.

I'm glad you're feeling better but I'm not sure why you got upset in the first place...

 

[exodus]

Apparently you don’t have any gay male friends. They are forever calling other men 'bitchy'.

Perhaps. That doesn't mean that men (gay or straight) can't be bitchy.

OK, in deference to our feminists here, we will man up and no longer call men invidious, irritable, or cranky--they shall henceforth be called 'bitchy'. Also men will not be referred to as handsome, they shall be 'pretty'. And to leave no stone unturned to make the ladies happy, manhole covers shall forevermore be 'personhole covers'. There, I feel much better.

This means war!!!!!!

 

[AuntKate]

Perhaps. That doesn't mean that men (gay or straight) can't be bitchy.

OK, in deference to our feminists here, we will man up and no longer call men invidious, irritable, or cranky--they shall henceforth be called 'bitchy'. Also men will not be referred to as handsome, they shall be 'pretty'. And to leave no stone unturned to make the ladies happy, manhole covers shall forevermore be 'personhole covers'. There, I feel much better.

I'm glad you're feeling better but I'm not sure why you got upset in the first place...

The clue here, KimC, is that nasty word "feminist." It's the new bitchy.

 

[TheGodBen]

This means war!!!!!!

Stop being so bitchy.

 

[exodus]

This means war!!!!!!

Stop being so bitchy.

Bastard!

 

[Zameaze]

OK, in deference to our feminists here, we will man up and no longer call men invidious, irritable, or cranky--they shall henceforth be called 'bitchy'. Also men will not be referred to as handsome, they shall be 'pretty'. And to leave no stone unturned to make the ladies happy, manhole covers shall forevermore be 'personhole covers'. There, I feel much better.

I'm glad you're feeling better but I'm not sure why you got upset in the first place...

The clue here, KimC, is that nasty word "feminist." It's the new bitchy.

Nah, it’s not new--feminist and bitchy have always been synonymous.

Bitch-y

–adjective, bitch⋅i⋅er, bitch⋅i⋅est. Slang.
characteristic of a bitch or feminist; spiteful; malicious.
Origin:
1925–30; bitch + -y 1

Related forms:
bitch⋅i⋅ly, adverb
bitch⋅i⋅ness, noun

Synonyms:
hateful, mean, vicious, feministic, invidious.

 

[BORU]

Too old to be influenced by the character of Janeway and I don't think I would have been anyway.

I wanted to be Uhura. She was smart, funny, beautiful, knew how to handle herself and before anyone brushes her off as just a glorified telephone operator in TOS I saw her as being the first line of defense against a bad first contact situation.

Uhura seemed to embrace and celebrate being a woman in all its glory and even as "someone who's career was winding down" could still cooly lock a man in the closet or bring men to their knees while doing a moonlight fan dance without breaking a sweat.

Course it could have had a lot to do with Nichelle Nicols who gave her life onscreen.

 

[kimc]

OK, in deference to our feminists here, we will man up and no longer call men invidious, irritable, or cranky--they shall henceforth be called 'bitchy'. Also men will not be referred to as handsome, they shall be 'pretty'. And to leave no stone unturned to make the ladies happy, manhole covers shall forevermore be 'personhole covers'. There, I feel much better.

I'm glad you're feeling better but I'm not sure why you got upset in the first place...

The clue here, KimC, is that nasty word "feminist." It's the new bitchy.

So if a man is acting bitchy that automatically makes him a feminist? Interesting.

 

[Vulcan Princess]

Janeway was never really an inspiration to me. I don't exactly aspire to tyranny and celibacy.

The character who inspired me the most in Trek is Kira. She's strong and commanding without all the angst. Any angst she does have comes from growing up in a war zone. She showed that she was willing to revise her opinions over time, and she experienced a lot of character growth.

 

[kimc]

Janeway was never really an inspiration to me. I don't exactly aspire to tyranny and celibacy.

Eh?

 

[Vulcan Princess]

^I found Janeway to be a bit of a tyrant. It was her way or the highway. (I found the same thing with Archer, so it's not a gender thing.)

As to the celibacy thing, the writers didn't appear to be comfortable with a female captain having intimate relationships. Granted, it would be problematic for her to have a romantic relationship with a crewmember, but that didn't stop other captains. It goes back to the old madonna/whore dichotomy, i.e. that "good" women aren't supposed to like sex.

 

[kimc]

^I found Janeway to be a bit of a tyrant. It was her way or the highway. (I found the same thing with Archer, so it's not a gender thing.)

I guess I'm not seeing it...

As to the celibacy thing, the writers didn't appear to be comfortable with a female captain having intimate relationships. Granted, it would be problematic for her to have a romantic relationship with a crewmember, but that didn't stop other captains. It goes back to the old madonna/whore dichotomy, i.e. that "good" women aren't supposed to like sex.

Yeah, the suits thought the "desired demographic" would be uncomfortable a the idea of a woman Janeway's age having regular sex with a member of the crew...

 

[JustKate]

You are oversimplifying, I think, Vulcan Princess. It stopped Picard, for example. After that time he had to command what's her name (Nella?) and she almost died, he decided he couldn't command anybody he was in love with, and I believe he kept to that promise for the rest of the show. And...did Sisko get involved with anybody he commanded? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

In any case, I think it's a horrible idea for any captain, male or female, to be involved with a member of the crew. Or for a first officer, for that matter. I know others here disagree.

Edit: Surely this doesn't make me a "suit," Kimc?

But I do agree that Janeway was in many ways, a "my way or the highway" kind of person. I think to at least an extent, all the captains are - and I expect that's the way it is in real life, too.