James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)
- Thread starter chrisspringob
- Start date
Those are definitely some of my favouriter Clarke works, up there with Rama and my personal favourite, Childhood's End.
I would have. There's more or less nothing about understanding the film I got from Clarke, except his famous line about the film; which was to the effect of if you understand it the first time you see it we have failed.
You have no idea. No idea!
On the internet Ferngully may be even more popular than the Smurfs and Dances With Wolves as a point of reference for this film. I have no idea why, because it'd assume a lot of people have actually seen and remember Ferngully, which I had always assumed wasn't the case (it wasn't exactly a splashy high-priority Disney musical like, say, Pocahontas, now was it?)
Seriously, enough. I'm half of a mind to even go the stj route on this one: If Avatar's plot is this cliched, surely we can throw in other cinematic references rather than sticking to a dire animated film with an even worse Robin Williams routine that we should all be very fortunate if we forget.
Take your pick. Seriously. A review blurb about Avatar is now the page quote exemplifying that entry; does this mean Avatar has acheived Ür-example status?
Fine. The Blind Side.
The point remains, though, Ferngully is ludricously overepresented.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
you are right, Fern Gully is not exactly a well known movie, I guess the fact its popular on the internet could be a demographic thing, in my case I just saw quite a few shots that seemed to be straight from Fern Gully, and a plot that borrowed alot from it, so I just said what I saw.
By the time they got the "lets go cut down the giant tree" bit it was confirmed in my mind, that Avatar was basically a more grown up Fern Gully.
I finally went to see this yesterday in 3D. I haven't read the whole thread, but my thoughts:
The Plot:
James Cameron may make popular movies. He cannot, however, seem to write an orginal plot. Dances With Wolves, Braveheart, Fern Gully, Eragon; I saw plot points from all. Yawn.
Not to mention the 9-11 effect of the tree coming down and the 'shock and awe' military tactics against the "terrorists"
The special effects:
Flawless. The film should be lauded for the special effects of Pandora, which seemed more 'real' than the human interactions.
3D: The 3D effects were, however, not as well done as in other films. The only parts that 'stood out' were the landscape ones (occasionally a piece of grass would pop out). Dissappointing
The characters:
Cliched, but I was still drawn in. The "I will fight while I'm still alive" military colonel was over the top, as well as the journey from "you're a child!" to "we are mated" bit, but enjoyable anyway.
So, if I were to grade it, a B-
Not worth seeing again, or buying the dvd. Sorry, it just wasn't. Oscar worthy...are you kidding? Maybe for the special effects, but that's all.
The Plot:
James Cameron may make popular movies. He cannot, however, seem to write an orginal plot. Dances With Wolves, Braveheart, Fern Gully, Eragon; I saw plot points from all. Yawn.
Not to mention the 9-11 effect of the tree coming down and the 'shock and awe' military tactics against the "terrorists"
The special effects:
Flawless. The film should be lauded for the special effects of Pandora, which seemed more 'real' than the human interactions.
3D: The 3D effects were, however, not as well done as in other films. The only parts that 'stood out' were the landscape ones (occasionally a piece of grass would pop out). Dissappointing
The characters:
Cliched, but I was still drawn in. The "I will fight while I'm still alive" military colonel was over the top, as well as the journey from "you're a child!" to "we are mated" bit, but enjoyable anyway.
So, if I were to grade it, a B-
Not worth seeing again, or buying the dvd. Sorry, it just wasn't. Oscar worthy...are you kidding? Maybe for the special effects, but that's all.
If you had been reading about the making of Avatar you would know that the 3D effects were never meant to pop out at you but to rather add depth and realism to Pandora itself.
So the film did what it intended to do. The appreciation would be in the individual viewing it.
Brit (who couldn't see the 3D due to a cataract in one eye but loved Avatar anyway.)
However, average joe viewer isn't going to "read about the making of Avatar"
If I'm paying more for the 3D movie, and wearing the glasses that hurt my ears (on top of my own glasses) I want to make it worth it.
Coraline, a 3-D movie that didn't 'overdo' the effects is an example of a film that does it well. Avatar, in my opinion, did not, and I wished I'd gone to see it without the glasses. My opinion and it's a valid one
However, average joe viewer isn't going to "read about the making of Avatar"
If I'm paying more for the 3D movie, and wearing the glasses that hurt my ears (on top of my own glasses) I want to make it worth it.
Coraline, a 3-D movie that didn't 'overdo' the effects is an example of a film that does it well. Avatar, in my opinion, did not, and I wished I'd gone to see it without the glasses. My opinion and it's a valid one
As is mine.
The fact that the 3D of Avatar doesn't jump out was very well documented in a number of places including a number of reviewers that are read by many, I frankly thought everyone going in to see it would have known that.
What I meant is that the film succeeded in what it was trying to do with 3D, and while I am sorry that it inhibited your enjoyment of the film, things jumping out does inhibit my pleasure and has done so many times in the past when I actually could see the effect.
The success or failure of any movie depends on how it's perceived. You didn't care much for Avatar and that is ok, I loved Avatar and that is ok too. It's apparent that a majority of people that saw the movie loved it too. As a Voyager fan and Kathryn Janeway fan it's nice to find someplace on the BBS where your opinion about anything is in fact in the majority lol.
Brit
I finally went to see this yesterday in 3D. I haven't read the whole thread, but my thoughts:
The Plot:
James Cameron may make popular movies. He cannot, however, seem to write an orginal plot. Dances With Wolves, Braveheart, Fern Gully, Eragon; I saw plot points from all. Yawn.
Not to mention the 9-11 effect of the tree coming down and the 'shock and awe' military tactics against the "terrorists"
The special effects:
Flawless. The film should be lauded for the special effects of Pandora, which seemed more 'real' than the human interactions.
3D: The 3D effects were, however, not as well done as in other films. The only parts that 'stood out' were the landscape ones (occasionally a piece of grass would pop out). Dissappointing
The characters:
Cliched, but I was still drawn in. The "I will fight while I'm still alive" military colonel was over the top, as well as the journey from "you're a child!" to "we are mated" bit, but enjoyable anyway.
So, if I were to grade it, a B-
Not worth seeing again, or buying the dvd. Sorry, it just wasn't. Oscar worthy...are you kidding? Maybe for the special effects, but that's all.
Not worth seeing again!!!?? I have seen it several times and I am chomping at the bit to own this on DVD. Even though you gave the movie a B- you wouldn't at least watch it again on DVD?
The fact that some story elements are not original doesn't bother me at all. If it did I would hardly watch any movie at all!! The point is I thought the story told as it is was done in a very dramatic and captivating manner.
My B- is for the visuals and special effects that were, as I've said, flawless.
They won't, I'm afraid, transfer well to DVD.
I enjoyed the movie and I am very GLAD that Sci-Fi is in the main stream
It wasn't, however, stunning writing IMO. So, no, not good enough as a whole to see again.
They won't, I'm afraid, transfer well to DVD.
I enjoyed the movie and I am very GLAD that Sci-Fi is in the main stream
It wasn't, however, stunning writing IMO. So, no, not good enough as a whole to see again.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
And at least three out of those copied from the forth.
Not to mention the 9-11 effect of the tree coming down and the 'shock and awe' military tactics against the "terrorists"
And...?
Disappointing?
The sense of depth of the picture is amazing.
It's sad that you cannot appreciate the complexity and difficulty to create these remarkable visual effects in 3D.
I guess you've seen a lot of movies only once then?
At first I too thought it's not worthy of an Oscar for best film, but considering that this is a really VFX-heavy film that doesn't sacrifice any actor's performance for the sake of another cool effect but manages to transport it flawlessly into the realm of CGI, perhaps it really does deserve that Oscar.
The plot devices used from other movies were almost EXACTLY copied from said film. The Dances With Wolves comparison with Dunbar keeping a 'log' of his experience with the Native Americans that is eventually used against him VS Sully keeping a 'log' of his experieces with the Na'vi that is eventually used against him. Kicking Bird from Dances With Wolves is the same character as Neyteri's father in Avatar. The 'angry' Na'vi character who challenges Sully is the same as the 'angry' Native American character who challeges Dunbar in Dances. Even Neyteri is much like Stands with a Fist in Dances. Both heroines are charged with having the hero 'learn' the culture and neither really want to at first. Then, both fall in love with their 'student'.
I could go on but you get my point. Avatar borrowed HEAVILY from Dances With Wolves. Avatar also borrowed heavily from Braveheart, but I'll save that point by point comparison for next time
you can get tremendous depth with out resorting to 3d.
of course then you cant charge much higher prices then.
but then a lot of people living today didnt get a chance to see films like lawrence of arabia in theatre unless they caught it when it was re-released .. but then that was some time ago.
using 3d to create depth is like cinematography for the lazy.
of course then you cant charge much higher prices then.
but then a lot of people living today didnt get a chance to see films like lawrence of arabia in theatre unless they caught it when it was re-released .. but then that was some time ago.
using 3d to create depth is like cinematography for the lazy.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
The plot devices used from other movies were almost EXACTLY copied from said film. The Dances With Wolves comparison with Dunbar keeping a 'log' of his experience with the Native Americans that is eventually used against him VS Sully keeping a 'log' of his experieces with the Na'vi that is eventually used against him. Kicking Bird from Dances With Wolves is the same character as Neyteri's father in Avatar. The 'angry' Na'vi character who challenges Sully is the same as the 'angry' Native American character who challeges Dunbar in Dances. Even Neyteri is much like Stands with a Fist in Dances. Both heroines are charged with having the hero 'learn' the culture and neither really want to at first. Then, both fall in love with their 'student'.
I could go on but you get my point. Avatar borrowed HEAVILY from Dances With Wolves. Avatar also borrowed heavily from Braveheart, but I'll save that point by point comparison for next time
Jake's journal wasn't used against him.
It was used to reinforce Quaritch's preconceived notions of a forced 'relocation'.
The plot devices used from other movies were almost EXACTLY copied from said film. The Dances With Wolves comparison with Dunbar keeping a 'log' of his experience with the Native Americans that is eventually used against him VS Sully keeping a 'log' of his experieces with the Na'vi that is eventually used against him. Kicking Bird from Dances With Wolves is the same character as Neyteri's father in Avatar. The 'angry' Na'vi character who challenges Sully is the same as the 'angry' Native American character who challeges Dunbar in Dances. Even Neyteri is much like Stands with a Fist in Dances. Both heroines are charged with having the hero 'learn' the culture and neither really want to at first. Then, both fall in love with their 'student'.
I could go on but you get my point. Avatar borrowed HEAVILY from Dances With Wolves. Avatar also borrowed heavily from Braveheart, but I'll save that point by point comparison for next time
I am certainly not disagreeing with you because I did see those comparisons myself. My point is that those plot elements are done very well in Avatar. If those plot points had been executed in apoor manner I would have not liked them, but the fact that they are not original doesn't bother me. There are even elements of Romeo & Juliet written by Shakespeare in the 17th century in Avatar so I really can be forgiving of a movie and story's unoriginality if it is executed in a creative and entertaining manner which I through Avatar really was.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
The plot devices used from other movies were almost EXACTLY copied from said film. The Dances With Wolves comparison with Dunbar keeping a 'log' of his experience with the Native Americans that is eventually used against him VS Sully keeping a 'log' of his experieces with the Na'vi that is eventually used against him. Kicking Bird from Dances With Wolves is the same character as Neyteri's father in Avatar. The 'angry' Na'vi character who challenges Sully is the same as the 'angry' Native American character who challeges Dunbar in Dances. Even Neyteri is much like Stands with a Fist in Dances. Both heroines are charged with having the hero 'learn' the culture and neither really want to at first. Then, both fall in love with their 'student'.
I could go on but you get my point. Avatar borrowed HEAVILY from Dances With Wolves. Avatar also borrowed heavily from Braveheart, but I'll save that point by point comparison for next time
I am certainly not disagreeing with you because I did see those comparisons myself. My point is that those plot elements are done very well in Avatar. If those plot points had been executed in apoor manner I would have not liked them, but the fact that they are not original doesn't bother me. There are even elements of Romeo & Juliet written by Shakespeare in the 17th century in Avatar so I really can be forgiving of a movie and story's unoriginality if it is executed in a creative and entertaining manner which I through Avatar really was.
Indeed.
For those who might care Target is already discounting the Avatar toys after only 90 days on the shelf. I never noticed them moving at my store, seems kids don't care to role play Pandora at home.
You'd think they'd be dying to play with this:
http://www.amazon.com/Camerons-Avatar-Parker-Selfridge-Action/dp/B002SNA8Z4/