James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

[Brit]

Quite. Hal has his progenitor in the dawn of man sequence - the bone used to kill, which famously cuts to a nuclear weapons satellite. That, and the association with evolution being bound up in killing anything in the way. HAL is in a sense both, as a tool and an evolving mind.

No, it's there. This is my point. There is a coherent story and use of themes in 2001, it's just not obvious and spelled out. It does require the audience to interrogate the film a little bit; that might not be your cup of tea or something you find annoying but it's not the same as it not actually being there.

I agree, I think it's there too because I made the connection to "Childhood's End" which is also a more spelled out version of the "next" step in evolution. One of the things I remember most is the trip home explaining what I thought we had seen to my brother and his wife who both got really confused by that movie.

So, would you have understood the film even if you hadn't read Clark beforehand like your family?

That is an unanswerable question. I have no idea. I was all of nineteen at the time (which points out an error on my part, because all my brothers are younger than me, so John wasn’t married when we saw the movie. That means that the other viewer was my cousin who didn’t read anything but Conan then.) At any given point in your life you have a finite knowledge.

At 19 I had read Clark, Asimov, Heinlein and whatever else was in the Science Fiction section of my high school library and a lot of what was in the downtown library. That was about the time I read The Lord of the Ring for the first time. I was also a huge TOS fan. I had read what I still believe is the best pure Science Fiction ever written, The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester. So maybe I could have figured it out but I don’t know that for sure.

What I did love was the space ship, I adored that ship and yes it was the ship I thought of when I saw Avatar and even the ship in Defying Gravity.

Brit

 

[wamdue]

right I have now seen Avatar, and I have a few points.

A wonderful wonderful movie, the £2 extra for 3D was worth it when the characters were in the Pandorain forest, the rest of the time I wasnt fussed, but I think that type of enviroment is the best use for 3D. (on a side note I was disappointed the cinema didnt show the Alice in Wonderland trailer in 3D)

as for the plot, you know I have seen 2/3rds of this movie before, the 1982 movie Fern Gully: The Last Rainforest, the 1/3 I hadnt seen before mostly the end 1/3 with Jake Sully leading the Na'vi against the humans & there machine.

For the record I liked Fern Gully, and for that reason I enjoyed this movie, a more grown up take on the story, with a much better ending, and some spectacular CGI, which I think sets a bench mark for all CGI films. The 3D made exploring Pandora a real visual treat.

I give it 4.5 out of 5, mostly because the plot was not totally new, and M Rod plays the same character she does in all her other movies, so kinda takes out of Pandora, and back into the real world a bit. It was not hard to see where this film was going to take us, but it was a wonderful journey none the less.

On a side note, I got a small kick out of noticing that Jake recorded a video dairy on the 13th August, my birthday, a day in which very little seems to have happened in history.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I wonder if Avatar will ever eclipse the apparent popularity of Ferngully.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I wonder if Avatar will ever eclipse the apparent popularity of Ferngully.

Is that gross or adjusted popularity?

 

[wamdue]

I wonder if Avatar will ever eclipse the apparent popularity of Ferngully.

since avatar had Michelle Rodriguez no, no it wont.

I aplogise if im the latest in a long line of people to make the Fern Gully comparison.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I set my DVR to record Ferngully because I've started to think I was the only person who had never seen it.

 

[wamdue]

I set my DVR to record Ferngully because I've started to think I was the only person who had never seen it.

its funny I was in a well known British DVD store, before I saw Avatar, and it had the Fern Gully movie & the d2DVD sequel on sale at £3 each.

I used to have Fern Gully on video, but I dont have a VHS anymore, and I dont think ive got the video either, but next time its on TV I will watch it.

At times Avatar really did feel like watching a live/cgi version of Fern Gully. I have yet to see the d2DVD sequel however, its my understanding that it lost the voice cast of the first movie.

 

[Kelso]

I wonder if Avatar will ever eclipse the apparent popularity of Ferngully.

 

[wamdue]

ok back to Avatar, I am sure this was noticed before, and its possible that Graces avatar just changed its top, but in the first half of the movie, Graces avatar wore a red top with STANFORD on it, but in the 2nd half it was just a plain red top.

It seemed odd to me.

Talking of the Sigourney Weaver, (if im allowed a silly moment) I assume the sequel is going to be Pandora vs Alien

 

[Brit]

ok back to Avatar, I am sure this was noticed before, and its possible that Graces avatar just changed its top, but in the first half of the movie, Graces avatar wore a red top with STANFORD on it, but in the 2nd half it was just a plain red top.

I just thought it was in the wash.

I'm thinking that the next movie will have Earth coming back and with maybe some actual military operated Avatars.

Brit

 

[wamdue]

ok back to Avatar, I am sure this was noticed before, and its possible that Graces avatar just changed its top, but in the first half of the movie, Graces avatar wore a red top with STANFORD on it, but in the 2nd half it was just a plain red top.

I just thought it was in the wash.

I'm thinking that the next movie will have Earth coming back and with maybe some actual military operated Avatars.

Brit

that does not sound very original, to be honest I would be quite happy to have a sci-fi movie where humans are not part of the plot.

 

[Brit]

I'm thinking that the next movie will have Earth coming back and with maybe some actual military operated Avatars.

Brit

that does not sound very original, to be honest I would be quite happy to have a sci-fi movie where humans are not part of the plot.

There are "humans" in every science fiction plot, they may be "humans" in funny suits (as are Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans or even Na'vi) but they are still actually humans.

Brit

 

[Harvey]

It's likely humans will be at least a small part of it, since some of the scientists were left behind on Pandora. I'm not sure what the advantage would be for military avatars, though. It seems like their armored air craft, etc., would be far more lethal, and cheaper, from what we've heard.

 

[wamdue]

It's likely humans will be at least a small part of it, since some of the scientists were left behind on Pandora.

obviously those humans would be allowed to take part in the story, but not any new humans.

Humans would of course be allowed to act in & work on the movie generally.

Even if the humans did return and used avatar like technology its more likely they were create a new creature, its clear Earth technology is pretty advanced when it comes to cloning & genetic manipulation, they could create new avatars that the Na'vi would not recognise as humans in a new avatar.

I am wondering if Grace could be reincarnated into the body of a baby Na'vi, but maybe im just being silly.

 

[David cgc]

Even if Grace was, they wouldn't know until she was old enough to talk, at least. I wonder how long the Navi live. Also, will it be a problem that the Avatars apparently don't age (Grace's was supposed to look younger than her because it was based on her appearance when it was first grown, seventeen years earlier)? Does that make Jake somewhat immortal?

 

[RoJoHen]

I wonder if Avatar will ever eclipse the apparent popularity of Ferngully.

Awesome. Seriously, though, all Avatar made me want to do is watch FernGully. I'll probably never watch Avatar again in my life, but I will almost certainly watch FernGully several more times.

 

[wamdue]

Even if Grace was, they wouldn't know until she was old enough to talk, at least. I wonder how long the Navi live. Also, will it be a problem that the Avatars apparently don't age (Grace's was supposed to look younger than her because it was based on her appearance when it was first grown, seventeen years earlier)? Does that make Jake somewhat immortal?

and those questions are what the sequel should be asking/answering, not some cliche, look its the humans they are back to try again plot, which is really no more than the last 1/3 of the movie stretched over 2 hours, and adding no new plot.

We did see a baby Na'vi in the film, so its clear they have babies, but its not clear how long they stay as babies etc

We could just say that when Jake was moved to his Na'vi body, the body was changed to become a true Na'vi, not just a human hybrid.

There are some Fern Gully Avatar mash ups on YouTube, doest not really mean anything, those guys will mash up any two things, for whatever reason they want, none of the ones I saw were that good either.

 

[Neutral Zone]

Saw it for the first time last week, we live on an island and it takes a little time for the blockbusters to here at times. I thought that it was one of the best films that I seen in a long time. looking forward to the DVD.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I can't imagine ever wasting time on Ferngully, but Avatar is great.

 

[RoJoHen]

I can't imagine ever wasting time on Ferngully

You would if you were 7!