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James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

Grade "Avatar"

  • Excellent

    Votes: 166 50.0%
  • Above Average

    Votes: 85 25.6%
  • Average

    Votes: 51 15.4%
  • Below Average

    Votes: 11 3.3%
  • Terrible

    Votes: 19 5.7%

  • Total voters
    332
I finally saw it last night at a 9:45pm showing because the 8:15pm one was sold out... :wtf: Thank goodness today is a half day at work.

I agree with everyone else about the stunning visuals (which I'd give an 8/5) and paper-thin plot (2/5). So that balances out to a 5/5 for me. :D

Worked out about the same for me. :D

Though I don't think I can get this on DVD as the movie just looks so damn good on the big screen that my TV wouldn't do it justice.
 
My theatre was sold out too; we bought our tickets for the 9:40 showing around noon. The film is doing pretty incredible business.
 
The industry buzz is generally positive

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/12/21/the-buzz-filmmakers-react-to-avatar/

Duncan Jones didn't seem to like it much, but I think he's a little blind to the plot flaws in "Moon".

Damon Lindeloff's comment summarised my feelings after a few day's reflection:

“I’ll say what others won’t. Avatar hypnotized me. I’m not sure if it’s a work of genius or utter shit. Could it be BOTH?”

I don't think there's any doubt now that there will be sequels. Any speculations about how those would go?

Some random thoughts:
  • What is the meaning of the arched rock formations in the energy vortex -- remind anyone of a broken eggshell?
  • Does life on Pandora evolve in a Darwinian sense or is it forced Lamarckian in essence?
  • Did Aywa evolve on Pandora, or was she originally a Von Neumann probe capable of teraforming by the application of molecular nanotechnology?
  • If Aywa is the product of alien technology, can she create a new seeder ship to infect and save Earth?
  • If Aywa is artificial, what happened to her creators? Did they poison their own planet, and was Aywa their atonement?
  • Will Grace return as an avatar of Aywa?
  • What happens when Aywa meets Gaia? (I think perhaps we had enough of that trope with "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within".)
 
I don't think there's any doubt now that there will be sequels. Any speculations about how those would go?


Some random thoughts:
  • What is the meaning of the arched rock formations in the energy vortex -- remind anyone of a broken eggshell?
  • Does life on Pandora evolve in a Darwinian sense or is it forced Lamarckian in essence?
  • Did Aywa evolve on Pandora, or was she originally a Von Neumann probe capable of teraforming by the application of molecular nanotechnology?
  • If Aywa is the product of alien technology, can she create a new seeder ship to infect and save Earth?
  • If Aywa is artificial, what happened to her creators? Did they poison their own planet, and was Aywa their atonement?
  • Will Grace return as an avatar of Aywa?
  • What happens when Aywa meets Gaia? (I think perhaps we had enough of that trope with "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within".)

I think these are great ranom thoughts, especially the two I made bold. I bought one of the "Avatar" books yesterday.

Avatar – An Activist Survival Guide

A confidential report on the biological and social history of Pandora.

By Maria Wilhelm and Dirk Mathison

http://www.amazon.com/Avatar-Confid..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=08EWRB7P3E0SFB3KGP74

There are some interesting things in this book that are not in the movie, but shows just how far James Cameron's world building went. I found this little snippet near the end of the bood very interesting.

“Mining operations at ESM 01(the main mine on Pandora) have proceeded according to plan, despite casualty rates running somewhat higher than anticipated. Continuing reports of miners feeling strange tactile sensations and distortions in vision and hearing—likely the results of electromagnetic field. Some report disturbing thoughts or compulsions, irregular heartbeats, limb paralysis, muscle tremors, or vertigo and nausea.”

It's pretty obvious that Cameron wanted to make sequels, so I am pretty sure he didn't tell us everything that there is to know about Pandora.

There is one big rule in writing fiction. "The reader (in this case insert viewer) doesn't get to know everything the writer does."

With this kind of worldbuilding, I wouldn't be one bit surprised to find Avatar becoming the next big fandom. FanFiction.Net already has 152 Avatar fan fics posted.

Brit
 
It's better to hold the weapon so that it can be easily replaced if it's damaged or runs out of ammo or jams or something. You can just grab another one rather than having to replace internal mechanisms or something welded onto your arm. Also makes it easier to aim. Notice how the bad guy reversed the knife hold once or twice.
 
- In exactly what Anime do mechs NOT hold guns, or swords?
His point being (and I wondered about this too) why not just build the guns into the mechas (theoretically, I suppose, they could hold more than just weapons, but I'm sure you could mount the guns while still keeping hands.

That, and the laughable sight of the Mecha drivers holding "air guns" inside their cockpits.
 
- Magic glass: At one point, arrows bounce off cockpit glass. At the end battle, they go right through.
In the final battle Navi were firing basically at point black, flying really close to the gunships, AFAIR, while during attack on the tree they were firing from the surface. The glass probably couldn't withstand it because the arrows are big, the Navi are strong and god knows what are the arrows made of.
 
Duncan Jones didn't seem to like it much, but I think he's a little blind to the plot flaws in "Moon".

If true, I still don't see what that has to do with his perfectly valid review of 'Avatar.' The guy is entitled to his opinion, and it's commendable that he would be so blunt regarding a movie by such an influential genre director, especially just starting out like he is.

What is the meaning of the arched rock formations in the energy vortex -- remind anyone of a broken eggshell?
They were arched around following the magnetic field surrounding the tree of life.



Will Grace return as an avatar of Aywa?
I doubt she'll have a physical body to inhabit, but I could definitely see Grace's consciousness returning (perhaps with visions of Weaver when connected to the tree) as a sort of guide for Jake in a sequel.

What happens when Aywa meets Gaia?
A lot of the questions in this movie have revolved around why Eywa chose Jake, a human, as her "champion" if you will instead of one of her own Na'vi people. This could be precisely the reason if the sequel(s) involve reviving the dying "spirit" of Earth somehow.

Did the avatars use machine guns from the gunships, or did they customize guns for 12-foot-tall people?

Yeah, they were one type of machine gun fired from the door gunner position of the Samson tiltrotors (along with a three-barreled Gatling gun). But the Na'Vi were big enough to carry them around like light assault rifles.



His point being (and I wondered about this too) why not just build the guns into the mechas.

It was to allow flexibility of mission. If you have a wide variety of emergencies and mission types, it wouldn't be efficient or quick to have to disassemble and reassemble new weaponry on the mechs each time. Instead, give them fully articulated hands and let them grab their own weapons on the way out.

If a mech falls in battle, any other one can come along and pick up its weapon to use themselves. Likewise if someone runs out of ammo or has a jam, they can just borrow a gun from another mech.

Having a giant sword-length knife makes sense when you're cutting through rainforest and fighting dinosaurs and 10-foot tall natives.

- Magic glass: At one point, arrows bounce off cockpit glass. At the end battle, they go right through.
In the final battle Navi were firing basically at point black, flying really close to the gunships, AFAIR, while during attack on the tree they were firing from the surface. The glass probably couldn't withstand it because the arrows are big, the Navi are strong and god knows what are the arrows made of.

Yeah. When we saw the arrows striking the windows the first time, it was only from Quaritch's massive Dragon gunship, which probably has much thicker armored windows. I don't believe we ever saw any arrows penetrate it throughout the movie, only the smaller Samsons and Scorpions.

The arrows that bounced off were fired from the ground, at a distance, and were already on a downward arc, so they would have lost a lot of momentum. The ones that penetrated were fired from above, straight into the windows and not arced, from close range.

Plus, low flying aircraft are typically armored in anticipation of being fired on from the ground, so the lower windows might be a lot thicker than the upper windows.

The bones of the Na'Vi (and presumably many of the other animals) were said to be a naturally occurring form of carbon fiber, which would make one hell of a strong arrowhead, especially when pulled by a ten-foot tall alien that's all muscle.
 
Duncan Jones didn't seem to like it much, but I think he's a little blind to the plot flaws in "Moon".
If true, I still don't see what that has to do with his perfectly valid review of 'Avatar.' The guy is entitled to his opinion, and it's commendable that he would be so blunt regarding a movie by such an influential genre director, especially just starting out like he is.

Oh don't get me wrong -- "Moon" was a fantastic debut -- however, it had some of the same flaws that DJ says "Avatar" has. The quote is: "at what point in the film did you have any doubt what was going to happen next? Or were you ever surprised how it happened?" … "and did you ever wonder to yourself why they didn’t just bombard shit from orbit?" … "Would have appreciated the barest bit of explanation for the floating mountain islands in Avatar… Pumice stone full of helium? Something!".

An equivalent quote for "Moon" would be: "at what point in the film did you have any doubt what was going to happen next? Or were you ever surprised how it happened?" … "and did you ever wonder to yourself why they didn’t just build more robots like Gerty who seemed to be well capable of doing anything a human could?" … "Would have appreciated the barest bit of explanation for how it was economically viable to create all those clones, and why they bothered to give them all of Sam Bell's memories? Something!"
 
I know laser weapons are a cliche and sci-fi, but something different than porokectile weapons would've been nice to see in this 22nd century set movie.
 
Are there any cliches about environmentalism vs industry, colonialism and multinational corporations, cowboys vs indians that were not used in this movie?

Of course there are.

Environmentalism vs. industry movies seem like they are always centered around the struggle to reveal the dastardly effects of industrial contamination, none of which is a part of Avatar.

Did...did we see the same movie? :wtf:

I didn't have a problem with the moral of the movie. Just the heavy-handed, uninteresting storytelling. All that was missing was a shot of the chief with a tear rolling down his cheek as he looks at trash left behind by RDA Corp.
 
Did anybody else feel a Fern Gully flashback kinda thing happening when the giant bulldozer first rocked up??

lol

I loved it. Great movie.

I was crying when Grace died but she is with Eywa now and I can see that she had to die so you wouldn't know if the procedure would work with Jake later on.

Also couldn't help shed a tear when Neyteri runs in to save the human Jake.
 
I know laser weapons are a cliche and sci-fi, but something different than porokectile weapons would've been nice to see in this 22nd century set movie.

Firearms in some form have been in use upwards of 900 years now, and I doubt the next 150 is going to change that completely. Energy weapons will be more widespread on the battlefield certainly, but I still think the standard weapon carried by the soldier on the ground will be a firearm - albeit a much more advanced one than we use today.
 
I was crying when Grace died but she is with Eywa now and I can see that she had to die so you wouldn't know if the procedure would work with Jake later on.

We already knew it would work when they did it in Star Trek III.
 
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