James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

[Locutus of Bored]

I would thought M. Laser Beam would love that aspect of the movie, actually. He rather ardently insisted in another thread he liked stories with evil villains and heroic heroes, no? Avatar definitely delivers.

Not when (most) humans are the evil villains and aliens are the heroes, apparently.

You got that right.

So, to recap from the threads I've seen you post in over the past couple of weeks...

You want stories with simplistic over-the-top evil villains with no motivation for their actions because finding motivation equals justification in your mind, in defiance of millenia of thoughtful consideration of why we humans do the things we do with the goal of perhaps preventing said behavior in the future.

You want the people who are the most like you in stories to never be the bad guys because that might cause you to actually think and reconsider your stance on certain historical events or beliefs, and that makes you uncomfortable. Never mind that challenging your preconceptions is supposed to be one of the goals of good science fiction.

You don't want witty banter, smart-asses, or anti-heroes who actually grow as the story progresses and do the right thing in the end, but instead prefer dull by-the-books goody two shoes who remain unchanged and unchallenged throughout the story.

I almost started snoring just writing that. I can't imagine building an entire book or movie or series around solely those kinds of boring one-note characters.

 

[Blue_Trek]

Average/Above Average: The visuals and action sequences were done well, I liked Horner's score for the movie, and the acting by the principals was fairly decent (are there any shows/movies where a character played by Michelle Rodriguez DOESN'T die?). The plot/storyline was fairly basic and unoriginal. There were really no surprise twists or turns that I can remember and it reminded me a lot of "Battle for Terra" aside from the corporate exploitation angle that "Avatar" took. Overall, I'd say the movie was good but sort of underwhelming when all's said and done.

I know she has become like the unknown member of a Star Trek away team, when all the members are vital to the series or movie, you just know that person is the sacrificial character.

But she survived in this movie.
Blue Crush

 

[Nerys Myk]

Michelle should redshirt in the next Trek film

 

[Nerys Myk]

^
RAMA: Ferngully?

I know, I understood they were very interested in him because he was a warrior. Doesn't mean he has to go through all the initiation rites and become a fully-fledged member of their people. But the fact that it happened isn't the problem: that it fitted so perfectly with Jake's mission is.

Ah. Excellent point, hadn't considered it like that.

Not so much a plot hole as a plot contrivance.

 

[Blue_Trek]

Michelle should redshirt in the next Trek film

LOL, a perfect roll for her, the sacrifical hero, she could be Kirks new girlfriend who dies right at the end of the movie.

 

[Trekker4747]

Can I just say how stupid the name of this material is in this movie? Seriously, James "Memetic Polyalloy" Cameron couldn't come up with a better name for it beyond using the stock name for a rare material of "unobatanium."

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I thought "unobtainium" was one of the film's good jokes. It almost broke the fourth wall. Of course, the business-guy who used the term probably doesn't give a shit what it's actually called anyway.

 

[Kegg]

^
It's not a joke, though, that's the official name of the substance.

As far as names go, well, it's about as on-the-nose as Pandora is (Pandora's Box, anyone?) but not half as poetic.

 

[Trekker4747]

I thought "unobtainium" was one of the film's good jokes. It almost broke the fourth wall. Of course, the business-guy who used the term probably doesn't give a shit what it's actually called anyway.

Such "fourth wall" jokes don't belong in movies that take themselves and their narrative seriously.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

^^^ If you were a particle I'd call you Antifun.

Can I just say how stupid the name of this material is in this movie? Seriously, James "Memetic Polyalloy" Cameron couldn't come up with a better name for it beyond using the stock name for a rare material of "unobatanium."

I could easily see scientists, engineers, or corporations using it as an ironic in-joke name for a real but extremely rare or difficult to create material because of its longstanding scifi and real world usage. Scientists come up with funny names for things all the time.

In fact, some people really have tried to use unobtanium for products or materials.

 

[Blue_Trek]

FYI
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Unobtainium

 

[Trekker4747]

FYI
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Unobtainium

Link fail.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

It works fine for me.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's working for me now, not sure what happened the first time around. It's interesting how much "depth" it seems was put into the various aspects of the movie. Reading the article on the "natives" it seems that the "linked together during mating" thing was thought of, just not presented on screeen -that I recall.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

There's a "field guide" book on the biology and technology of the film that explains a lot of the background information and answered some of the questions I had. Someone linked to the excerpts of it here(?) I think.

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

There are some good comparisons in here... it did feel a lot like Ferngully meets Dance's With Wolves.

To be honest, at best I gave it a C. The animation and visuals were amazing, the story line and all... not so much.

 

[JediKnightButler]

Average/Above Average: The visuals and action sequences were done well, I liked Horner's score for the movie, and the acting by the principals was fairly decent (are there any shows/movies where a character played by Michelle Rodriguez DOESN'T die?). The plot/storyline was fairly basic and unoriginal. There were really no surprise twists or turns that I can remember and it reminded me a lot of "Battle for Terra" aside from the corporate exploitation angle that "Avatar" took. Overall, I'd say the movie was good but sort of underwhelming when all's said and done.

I know she has become like the unknown member of a Star Trek away team, when all the members are vital to the series or movie, you just know that person is the sacrificial character.

But she survived in this movie.
Blue Crush

Oh, you're absolutely right. Forgot about that one. Not that she was in any mortal peril from anybody/anything in that movie.........unless you count the ocean.

 

[JediKnightButler]

Average/Above Average: The visuals and action sequences were done well, I liked Horner's score for the movie, and the acting by the principals was fairly decent (are there any shows/movies where a character played by Michelle Rodriguez DOESN'T die?). The plot/storyline was fairly basic and unoriginal. There were really no surprise twists or turns that I can remember and it reminded me a lot of "Battle for Terra" aside from the corporate exploitation angle that "Avatar" took. Overall, I'd say the movie was good but sort of underwhelming when all's said and done.

I agree...the plot was very similar to DANCES WITH WOLVES--POCHAHONTIS and that movie with Tom Berrenger where he helps save a lost tribe of Native Americans..

But I did like the characters, especially Worthington. I think he pulled off his role pretty good...as did Zoe. The acting was actually better than I thought it was going to be, and is, along with the FX, what makes up for the "paint by numbers" aspect of the plot...

Rob

*******Spoiler*****





Yeah, Worthington was a good character, as was Weaver's character. Sucks that she died. I was kind of hoping that she'd become her avatar but I guess that she was too injured to make the transfer. I'll have to admit that the concept of the avatars was actually pretty unique. I figured that Worthington's probably become his avatar by the end of the movie...........and I was right.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Wow, this is some funny sh*t!!!

"Avatar: The Making of the Bootleg"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thsc60UTUIE&feature=player_embedded

 

[Kaijima]

*******Spoiler*****





Yeah, Worthington was a good character, as was Weaver's character. Sucks that she died. I was kind of hoping that she'd become her avatar but I guess that she was too injured to make the transfer. I'll have to admit that the concept of the avatars was actually pretty unique. I figured that Worthington's probably become his avatar by the end of the movie...........and I was right.[/QUOTE]


Spoiler continued!

Actually, the ending caught me off guard in one way.

I was pretty certain that the way the classic ideas would play out would be: Jake dies in Neiteyri's arms, because he is already too poisoned. She takes his body to the tree, and the miraculous event is that a copy of enough of Jake is extracted from his corpse to infuse his inert Avatar and create Jake 2.0.

This fits in with the classic tropes of death, transcendence, and return. Also, it fits with a pattern in stories where the protagonist is transformed from a human being into something else: it is always due to events beyond control, including death and resurrection. This makes the transformation morally neutral and doesn't complicate the story; the fairy tale logic.

But having Jake recover, survive, and then willingly choose to abandon his humanity even at the very real risk that it will fail and he'll die is something else. This can be interpreted a few ways. One would be that Jake would rather die than remain human. Another is that the prospect of dying is less important than Jake's devotion to Neityeri or The People.

It is something that will bother some people a lot more than the first way the trope might've played out. I've already seen a few folks criticizing the plot device as being misanthropic, and finishing the job of putting humanity in as negative a light as possible. Perhaps so, but at the same time, I have a hard time seeing how it'd be plausible that Jake would decline the opportunity with the way the story is set up.