James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

[Lt. Trull]

interesting.... a sentient conscious ecosystem which had a planet to genetically engineer. one query... did the planet know there was more out there or was it when the inhabitants of the sol system arrived did it start to comprehend something greater to play with.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Who is Ey'Wa, we know she is real, Grace said so, so who is she, the living consciousness of Pandora one would assume?

I assumed that Pandora's whole ecosystem is a variation of Solaris' ocean, a one big consciousness.

Yes, which makes a Borg Queen like manifestation in a sequel all the more likely.

At least then, the humans would have something to negotiate with. Much better than the Na'vi simply allowing humanity to die because they don't want to let anyone mine the unobtanium.

 

[JediKnightButler]

Average/Above Average: The visuals and action sequences were done well, I liked Horner's score for the movie, and the acting by the principals was fairly decent (are there any shows/movies where a character played by Michelle Rodriguez DOESN'T die?). The plot/storyline was fairly basic and unoriginal. There were really no surprise twists or turns that I can remember and it reminded me a lot of "Battle for Terra" aside from the corporate exploitation angle that "Avatar" took. Overall, I'd say the movie was good but sort of underwhelming when all's said and done.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Average/Above Average: The visuals and action sequences were done well, I liked Horner's score for the movie, and the acting by the principals was fairly decent (are there any shows/movies where a character played by Michelle Rodriguez DOESN'T die?). The plot/storyline was fairly basic and unoriginal. There were really no surprise twists or turns that I can remember and it reminded me a lot of "Battle for Terra" aside from the corporate exploitation angle that "Avatar" took. Overall, I'd say the movie was good but sort of underwhelming when all's said and done.

I agree...the plot was very similar to DANCES WITH WOLVES--POCHAHONTIS and that movie with Tom Berrenger where he helps save a lost tribe of Native Americans..

But I did like the characters, especially Worthington. I think he pulled off his role pretty good...as did Zoe. The acting was actually better than I thought it was going to be, and is, along with the FX, what makes up for the "paint by numbers" aspect of the plot...

Rob

 

[Arrqh]

It's a cool name.

Let's not be so literal in our title analysis, hm? This is ART.

Uh, I didn't make some sort of indepth literally analysis here. I just pointed out the things name! I don't think it's unreasonable at all, generally things have the thing that their name suggests they have. For instance, I wouldn't expect something to be called Star Trek and not have, you know, a trek to the stars

Anyway, the most compelling reason for the sequels to have more avatars in them is that this is the most interesting part of the premise.

 

[Kegg]

Unless I missed a beat, Sam Worthington can now never leave his Avatar. He'd likely still be the hero in a sequel, so the film would literally be following an Avatar around.

So how is the title a problem?

 

[RobertScorpio]

Unless I missed a beat, Sam Worthington can now never leave his Avatar. He'd likely still be the hero in a sequel, so the film would literally be following an Avatar around.

So how is the title a problem?

I dont think there should be another Avatar movie...although it is set up for one...

But the title of the movie was perfect...so not sure what the problem is with it. What they created was, essentially, a real avatar...great premise

Rob

 

[JacksonArcher]

If there is an Avatar 2 and it followed Jake, I don't know how it could retain the premise of the original. Since Jake is now fully joined with his Na'vi body, the whole concept of putting your mind into someone else's body becomes obselete with Jake as the main character again.

 

[Arrqh]

Unless I missed a beat, Sam Worthington can now never leave his Avatar. He'd likely still be the hero in a sequel, so the film would literally be following an Avatar around.

So how is the title a problem?

I don't mean that it's a problem at all, just that I expect any sequels to continue to take advantage of the concept beyond "Sam is a na'vi now." Cause really, that's not his avatar anymore, it's who he is. The fact that the humans have technology to project their minds into other bodies is the most interesting aspect to the premise and if they don't leverage that beyond this movie... well, it just seems silly to me is all. Plus there's a lot of interesting things they can still do with the concept.

 

[Brit]

Cameron, has been talking sequels - and there are some spoilers in the link.

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1628605/story.jhtml

Brit

 

[ambessalion]

i loved it....he's doing pretty much what i want to do....it has inspired me to work on animals for my series and describe them

 

[Kegg]

If there is an Avatar 2 and it followed Jake, I don't know how it could retain the premise of the original. Since Jake is now fully joined with his Na'vi body, the whole concept of putting your mind into someone else's body becomes obselete with Jake as the main character again.

That was just Jake's arc for the movie. Like Luke learning to use the force in Star Wars. A sequel may give his arc about the continuing tensions of his dual identity - yes, he can't go back, but also the guy cannot actually speak Na'vi. We might see this idea played in reverse - what ties, if any, does he still have to Earth? Family, friends, etc.

Ultimately, Jake's arc is about these twin identities and the Avatar technology is simply something that makes the second identity possible. We can keep the thematic links without ever having him go back to a human body.

I expect any sequels to continue to take advantage of the concept beyond "Sam is a na'vi now." Cause really, that's not his avatar anymore, it's who he is.

Ah, but he is the Avatar now. That doesn't stop his body from being something grown in a tube which also contained human DNA.

Sequels might do something else with the Avatar idea, but they don't need to simply to keep the name.

Now, since it's rumoured the sequel will take place on another planet, there's an obvious use for Avatar technology. Pandora's habitat was literally inhospitable to humans, necessitating the Avatar technology if they wanted to get out and talk to people; if humans go to another planet (and/or the Na'vi do) they may need to use Avatars to talk to whoever inhabits that planet, or the humans/Na'vi may need avatars to talk to each other (which would include the possibility of Na'vi using human avatars, which I find an interesting inversion).

 

[Hyperspace05]

The $$$ keeps rolling in...

- Domestically the 2nd weekend gross is estimated to be $75 million (down only 3% from opening weekend), for a domestic total of $212 million.

- Internationally the 2nd weekend gross is estimated to be $145 million, for an international total so far of $405 million.

This means that Avatar has worldwide grossed $618 million after just 10 days.

 

[Trekker4747]

Cameron confirms that "I have a trilogy-scaled arc of story right now, but I haven't really put any serious work into writing a script."

That's fine ... he didn't put any serious work into writing this script either.

No joke.
After the purty visuals this movie is weak. All this apologetic nonsense about the 'great pacing' is nothing but an attempt at making up excuses for its lack of being an actual good story.
Sites like Megacritic only confirm for me director loyalty, well that and the hypocrites around here praising Avatar while bashing other films for the same plot problems. Pacing is not a some 'mulligan' for me like others it seems.

I'd rather watch District 9 and Transformers back to back than Avatar again.

Oh, and I just got in from Sherlock Holmes...better.

Giving movies a "mulligan" on plot oddities is something I'm willing to do, so long as the rest of the movie uses that "mulligan" advantage to its benifit.

For example I'll pick a movie almost at random....

Transformers.

I'll give it the "mulligan" to allow for the sentient robots that can do all of the things we see them do in this movie (in this case the "mulligan" is suspension of disbelief) or that they need to do these things. But the movie doesn't make good use of that advantage. Instead it has robots "peeing" on characters and stumbling around back yards for 20 minutes.

Avatar, yeah, has plot problems in it but, for me, I can shrug them off because the action is very well done, and the story actualy, well, exists.

So, yeah, I can shrug dumb things off in movies so long as the rest of the movie is good enough to make up for it.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

At least then, the humans would have something to negotiate with. Much better than the Na'vi simply allowing humanity to die because they don't want to let anyone mine the unobtanium.

The movie never said humanity would die if it couldn't mine the unobtanium. They said "the humans went back to their dying world," but the message is that the human world is dying precisely because of the type of greed and destruction of the ecology that they are again doing on Pandora.

Quaritch addresses how Jake had to deal with some "bad bush" in Venezuela however many years ago that war was fought, but then later it's stated that there literally are few if any trees left in the Amazon, so the assumption is that they probably destroyed what's left of it during or after the war Jake fought in, the cause of which was most likely more corporate resource grabbing with military assistance.

Besides, the humans had an entire planet they could have mined for unobtanium, but they chose to pursue the bigger, easier to mine deposits under the Na'vi village, so it's crazy to blame the Na'vi because their very existence makes things a little more inconvenient. Oh gee, it's the biggest deposit in 200 miles and you might have to do some traveling? How terrible. You feel bad for the guys who find it easier to wipe out the home, sacred grounds, and people of an indigenous tribe rather than just put a little more effort into mining further away?

It's not like the Na'vi could stop them anywhere they went. They could have found an uninhabited area to mine, far away from any native villages. They chose not to, because it wasn't easy.

 

[Kegg]

I would thought M. Laser Beam would love that aspect of the movie, actually. He rather ardently insisted in another thread he liked stories with evil villains and heroic heroes, no? Avatar definitely delivers.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I would thought M. Laser Beam would love that aspect of the movie, actually. He rather ardently insisted in another thread he liked stories with evil villains and heroic heroes, no? Avatar definitely delivers.

Not when (most) humans are the evil villains and aliens are the heroes, apparently.

 

[Arrqh]

Ah, but he is the Avatar now. That doesn't stop his body from being something grown in a tube which also contained human DNA.

Not really... an avatar (not just limited to the movie here) is a projection or representation of someone that is separate from who they are. By actually transferring Sam's consciousness, his na'vi body (while not a "natural" one) is no longer an avatar because it isn't a projection of himself but instead is himself wholesale. In other words, the act of becoming his avatar means that it no longer is an avatar.

Now, since it's rumoured the sequel will take place on another planet, there's an obvious use for Avatar technology. Pandora's habitat was literally inhospitable to humans, necessitating the Avatar technology if they wanted to get out and talk to people; if humans go to another planet (and/or the Na'vi do) they may need to use Avatars to talk to whoever inhabits that planet, or the humans/Na'vi may need avatars to talk to each other (which would include the possibility of Na'vi using human avatars, which I find an interesting inversion).

Well yes, that's what I was theorizing about in my post yesterday. Certainly they could just drop the concept but if that's what Cameron had in mind I don't think he would have used this as the name for the franchise. And I think they'd lose some of their uniqueness as well (which already isn't exactly.... substantial to begin with.)

 

[Kegg]

Ah, but he is the Avatar now. That doesn't stop his body from being something grown in a tube which also contained human DNA.

Not really... an avatar (not just limited to the movie here) is a projection or representation of someone that is separate from who they are.

I know that. Krishna is an avatar. Wixiban is my avatar.

But in Avatar there is a sort of body which has human DNA and human consciousness can be transplanted into it, which makes it different from a Na'vi body. What is the name for this specific kind of thing? Avatar. So Sam is now basically living only in an Avatar.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I would thought M. Laser Beam would love that aspect of the movie, actually. He rather ardently insisted in another thread he liked stories with evil villains and heroic heroes, no? Avatar definitely delivers.

Not when (most) humans are the evil villains and aliens are the heroes, apparently.

You got that right.