James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

[Thrall]

Saw it a while ago. Wasn't impressed. It had great special effects, conceptual ideas, and one hell of a battle at the end. But I found the characters to be cardboard, the plot to be predictable, and it's themes and message to be one big boring cliche. Zoe Salanda was really good and doesn't get enough credit from critics IMO. But I find Sam Worthington to be the most bland actor since Chris O'Donnell. He must have one hell of an agent to get all these big movie roles he seems to be landing. Dude also needs to stop trying to do an American accent. He can't pull it off.

I dislike the Noble Savage myth. It's a tired, boring cliche that everyone does. Occasionally you'll see a new, interesting take on it. Princess Mononoke is one good example. In that film, the Noble Savages weren't all that noble and the Evil Military-Industrialists weren't all that evil. But in general, these type of stories tend to be one-sided, black-and-white, preachy Hippie Porn that lack anything resembling ambiguity. I assumed James Cameron would be smart enough of a filmmaker to avoid this. I assumed wrong. I dunno. I was hopping for something a bit more unexpected.

There's this old guy on YouTube who does these really funny, but long-winded, movie reviews and he made two points about Avatar that I agree with. One, Cameron seems to hold to the belief that most primitive cultures are ultimately peace-seeking. History has proven otherwise, as primitive cultures have proven to be just as violent and aggressive as Imperialistic ones. And second, Cameron assumes that soldiers in a modern, Western-type military would and do have the exact same mentality as those of the 17th century. Not only is it childishly simplistic, but it's also insulting to members of The Armed Forces.

I really hope The Hurt Locker kicks Avatar's ass at The Oscars. It at least shows an exaggerated - but believable - take on soldiers in a military occupation-type situation.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

That review is pretty funny!

 

[Rii]

I dislike the Noble Savage myth. It's a tired, boring cliche that everyone does.

It's not nearly as tiresome as the "Noble Soldier" myth.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I am not swearing blind allegiance to Fern Gully...

Good, because that would be ridiculous.

I really hope The Hurt Locker kicks Avatar's ass at The Oscars.

Winning "Best Picture" would certainly be a boost for The Hurt Locker and an encouragement for commercial filmmakers to continue to tackle tougher subjects - it'll further boost that movie's box office. Winning or losing at the Academy Awards won't make one bit of difference to Avatar - which blew past 700 million in the U.S. this week, BTW, and has raked in over 2.5 billion worldwide.

Wonder if it can make 3 billion?

Hearing Cameron talking about the film's acceptance in China reminded me of how narrowly culture-bound many of the criticisms of Avatar are - whatever the Chinese and many other national groups think of the effects of European colonialism on their own nations, they certainly aren't obsessed with analyses of "noble savages" or the issue of whether white guys are too fond of telling stories about indigenous peoples being saved by white guys. Nor do comparisons with other recent American movies probably spring nearly as quickly to mind; they're more likely to take the movie on its own merits.

I dislike the Noble Savage myth. It's a tired, boring cliche that everyone does.

It's not nearly as tiresome as the "Noble Soldier" myth.

Nor is its influence as pervasively malign.

 

[Thrall]

I dislike the Noble Savage myth. It's a tired, boring cliche that everyone does.

It's not nearly as tiresome as the "Noble Soldier" myth.

Or "Chomskyites really do support the troops" myth. Good to know not everything is true right?

Wonder if it can make 3 billion?

Probably. There's nothing else out. Say what you will about him, but the guy knows how to sell his films as must see EVENTS. Even if they don't quite live up to the hype in some people's minds, they're still going to go see his films.

Winning "Best Picture" would certainly be a boost for The Hurt Locker and an encouragement for commercial filmmakers to continue to tackle tougher subjects - it'll further boost that movie's box office. Winning or losing at the Academy Awards won't make one bit of difference to Avatar - which blew past 700 million in the U.S. this week, BTW, and has raked in over 2.5 billion worldwide.

Hey I'm usually the first one to think that The Academy nominates too many Art House films and that more mainstream films tend to get overlooked. But not this year. The Hurt Locker was just a better experience for me. Although I'd would be happy if Avatar won, because they tend to look down on genre films in general. If nothing else Cameron has made a genre film so big even the snobs at The Academy can't ignore it. Granted, it doesn't really affect me one way or another but I get the same feeling when a movie I really like wins an award that I do when my favorite sports team wins a championship.

Hearing Cameron talking about the film's acceptance in China reminded me of how narrowly culture-bound many of the criticisms of Avatar are - whatever the Chinese and many other national groups think of the effects of European colonialism on their own nations, they certainly aren't obsessed with analyses of "noble savages" or the issue of whether white guys are too fond of telling stories about indigenous peoples being saved by white guys. Nor do comparisons with other recent American movies probably spring nearly as quickly to mind; they're more likely to take the movie on its own merits.

But that works both ways. A Communist country is going to love the anti-Capitalist/Western Imperialist and pro-commune imagery of the film.

 

[Kegg]

You know, Cameron's defence of his white messiah really doesn't wash. He argues it's a necessity because the white guy has the technology to help them win and without the technology no primitive society could win; fair enough, but he's missing the ace the Na'vi have up their sleeve: Eywa.

And just because the white guy has the technology to help doesn't mean he also has to be the guy to tame the Turok and get Eywa on their side and so on. Most importantly, choosing to aid the natives and choosing to lead the natives aren't the same thing.

I really hope The Hurt Locker kicks Avatar's ass at The Oscars. It at least shows an exaggerated - but believable - take on soldiers in a military occupation-type situation.

The Hurt Locker is a realistic-type drama set in the real world. If it's exaggerated, this is a much bigger problem than for a stylised fantasy film like Avatar.

I'd really hope neither win and the award go to Inglourious Basterds or A Serious Man but that ain't gonna happen, is it?

 

[startrekrcks]

sorry but I have to disagree with Thrall's thoughts on Avatar, how can you say that Avatar is rubbish, may I add the characters were brilliant, the acting was superb in my opinion.

 

[Australis]

The Neytiri and human Jake scene really was simple and very moving. One of the things that really lifted the film, IMHO

So in Disney's Pocahontas when she hugs John Smith are you moved there too?

Ummm, not so much. The simple reason is, when you see the size difference between Neytiri and Jake, and how large and powerful she is compared to him, but she handles him so tenderly and they are still the same people, even though he's in a body that's broken and she's not used to, that's moving.

 

[startrekrcks]

she is a giant isn't she anyway I love the scene it's just so beautiful and very moving even though she is CGI it is amazing how Jake reacts to her isn't it

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I dislike the Noble Savage myth. It's a tired, boring cliche that everyone does.

It's not nearly as tiresome as the "Noble Soldier" myth.

Or "Chomskyites really do support the troops" myth. Good to know not everything is true right?

What's calling names like "Chomskyite" got to do with anything, other than distraction and baiting here?

Guy's a brilliant linguist, BTW. His work formed the spine of transformational grammar when I studied anthropology.

Probably. There's nothing else out.

No, that's not why it's making billions. Lots of people like it a whole lot.

Winning "Best Picture" would certainly be a boost for The Hurt Locker and an encouragement for commercial filmmakers to continue to tackle tougher subjects - it'll further boost that movie's box office. Winning or losing at the Academy Awards won't make one bit of difference to Avatar - which blew past 700 million in the U.S. this week, BTW, and has raked in over 2.5 billion worldwide.

Hey I'm usually the first one to think that The Academy nominates too many Art House films and that more mainstream films tend to get overlooked. But not this year.

Hey, I'm all for Hurt Locker taking home an award or two - Avatar certainly doesn't need an Academy award to guarantee that many, many more films will be made in the same mold.

 

[startrekrcks]

I want it to win come on Avatar putting my loyal fangirl on you can crush The Hurt Locker in my opinion your opinion may differ on it possibly getting any awards.

 

[777]

New Details on Avatar Sequel


http://www.collider.com/2010/03/01/...ntial-film-plus-new-details-on-avatar-sequel/

In other, not so serious film related news, James Cameron has briefly commented on Avatar 2. Actually that is the news, that it won’t be called Avatar 2. According to Sci-Fi Wire, James Cameron stated that since Sam was no longer an avatar it would be illogical for a sequel to have Avatar in the title. “Maybe we’ll call it Na’vi.” said Cameron. Here’s hoping the events surrounding Charles Pellegrino will cause Cameron to get cracking on an Avatar sequel stat. The last sequel Cameron filmed was Terminator 2: Judgment Day which turned out to only be one of the best, most successful sequels ever.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I wonder if Na'vi is trademarked/trademarkable?

 

[stj]

Again with the white messiah nonsense?

Almost all of the same people who claim to resent the mghty whitey trope will simultaneously attack Sully as dull (or complain how uncharismatic Sam Worthington is.) That's because the character is not the white messiah. He's not even the leader, although a viewer fixated on the lead might miss it. Sully's a lousy general too. They are plainly getting their asses kicked even when they're doing the ambushing. Jake's atrophied legs are not dwelt upon, but they don't belong to mighty whitey. That drivel is just the right wingers trying to judo the lefties with a fake criticism that's supposed to be unanswerable by the antiracists.

As for getting Eywa on the Navi side, it is hard to tell whether this is seriously meant even by the people who post it. Insofar as Jake convinces Eywa to intervene, it is by confessing that humanity is really bad news that can't be tolerated. That kind of meekness has to be covered up with miracles. Or at the very least, glorious martyrdom. Eywa coming to the rescue because Jake warned her how shitty people are just isn't a white messiah thing to do. The notion is ridiculous.

As for the Oscars, it seems to me likely that Hurt Locker (and to a lesser extent, District 9) are the designated safe alternatives to Avatar. It is unlikely that Avatar will win Best Picture and almost dead certain it won't win Best Director. And the other Oscars don't really count. However many 3D motion capture CGI movies there will be in Avatar's wake, there will almost certainly be no more movies where that other kind of people stands guard over surrendered US Marines. There's a reason the foreign/domestic box office for Avatar splits 72%/28%.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Again with the white messiah nonsense?
...that drivel is just the right wingers trying to judo the lefties with a fake criticism that's supposed to be unanswerable by the antiracists.

Uh, sorry, but that criticism really is coming from the Left and from minorities. If one thinks otherwise one is either not reading very widely or ignoring the evidence.

Cameron himself is bemused and amused that political criticism of the movie is coming from all over the spectrum.

 

[Harvey]

And the other Oscars don't really count.

What, no love for sound editing?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

And the other Oscars don't really count.

What, no love for sound editing?

Come on, there's the coveted Best Hairstyling!

 

[Kegg]

I wonder if Na'vi is trademarked/trademarkable?

I'd bet it already is, really.

Interesting he suggests Na'vi as the title, and not, say, Pandora. Maybe we are going to that other planet?

 

[T'Baio]

I'm willing to bet that Na'vi will not be the title.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Probably not.

The studio will probably really, really want "Avatar" as the prefix to whatever the title is. Nor is it completely unlikely that Cameron will have a Na'vi avatar character or two.

Has Cameron sequelized any of his original stuff other than Terminator? Because if we're going by Terminator II then his proclivity with sequels tends to be to retell the first movie's story, bigger and louder and with elaboration.