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James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

Grade "Avatar"

  • Excellent

    Votes: 166 50.0%

  • Above Average

    Votes: 85 25.6%

  • Average

    Votes: 51 15.4%

  • Below Average

    Votes: 11 3.3%

  • Terrible

    Votes: 19 5.7%
  • Total voters
    332
Samuel Walters said:
^ If Cameron puts any thought into the possible sequel, the Na'Vi will have to confront the flipside to the knowledge they gained from the humans: The inherent human flaws from the humans, as well. If so, I'd have hope for a more nuanced and meaningful overall story.
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I doubt it.. Cameron is a good director for summer blockbusters and knows how to put a movie together bit i'd not rate him as a subtle or "deep" director.

However that's tied into the style of his movies which are usually action movies which tend to focus less on characters but on huge visuals and much explosives.
 
I think Cameron can most definitely be a subtle director. Some of the finest things he's ever done have been "in the moment."

It's subtle writing he's not the best at.
 
T'Baio said:
I think Cameron can most definitely be a subtle director. Some of the finest things he's ever done have been "in the moment."
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That's fair enough. I really think it's the direction and acting in this film that elevates the screenplay. There's so much here that could have been pedestrian and yet, wasn't. I was surprised that one of the horiest cliches of every environemental film ever, the big machines hacking down the environment, actually sort of got to me when it happened. I'd just really grown attached to how pretty and weird that tree looked, and the preceding scene was a rather nice, tranquil one.

Anyway, my money is on Earth counterattacking with a vengeance. Bigger ships, a bigger threat. Sam Worthtington unites a much bigger army of Na'vi (as Avatar implied he would have gathered anyway had Stephen Lang not struck sooner); and we have an even more epic showdown.

Also counting on: Sigourney Weaver to appear Obi-Wan Kenobi-esque, via the Tree of Souls and whatnot.
 
Kegg said:
T'Baio said:
I think Cameron can most definitely be a subtle director. Some of the finest things he's ever done have been "in the moment."
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That's fair enough. I really think it's the direction and acting in this film that elevates the screenplay. There's so much here that could have been pedestrian and yet, wasn't. I was surprised that one of the horiest cliches of every environemental film ever, the big machines hacking down the environment, actually sort of got to me when it happened. I'd just really grown attached to how pretty and weird that tree looked, and the preceding scene was a rather nice, tranquil one.

Anyway, my money is on Earth counterattacking with a vengeance. Bigger ships, a bigger threat. Sam Worthtington unites a much bigger army of Na'vi (as Avatar implied he would have gathered anyway had Stephen Lang not struck sooner); and we have an even more epic showdown.

Also counting on: Sigourney Weaver to appear Obi-Wan Kenobi-esque, via the Tree of Souls and whatnot.
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It's about 4 years before Earth even knows what happened, if the mining colony got a message off.

5.5 years before the Earthmen get home to be debriefed.

How do you fight a war at the end of a 4.5 (or so) light year supply line? Against an entire planet with a totally hostile ecosystem?

Say you run out of left handed widgets. It takes 4.5 years for the order to get to Earth. 5.5 years for the widgets to be delivered.

I'd say the Na'vi are pretty safe. :)
 
The Comedian said:
It's about 4 years before Earth even knows what happened, if the mining colony got a message off.

5.5 years before the Earthmen get home to be debriefed.

How do you fight a war at the end of a 4.5 (or so) light year supply line? Against an entire planet with a totally hostile ecosystem?
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You up the ante, of course. You come in bigger and better and with everything you've got. If unobtainum is worth that much, then it's a logical plot for the next movie. Maybe they'd even go with the nuke everyone complains about (why didn't they nuke the place in the first movie, then? Um, maybe they didn't have a nuke? That makes sense to me), but anyway, if a sequel isn't about conflict of some sort between Earth and the Na'vi, what the heck is it about?

As far as the time differential, we don't know how slowly Na'vi age. Ten years to us could be three years to them - and of course the returning characters that actually count are Na'vi by now.
 
Thespeckledtree said:
T'Baio said:
Box Office Mojo is reporting that Avatar broke the Christmas Eve gross record with over $11 million. It's consistently been getting over $16 million a day all week. The film is almost at $400 million worldwide, and will probably be there after tonight. :) So much for failure...
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It's not going to be a financial or a technical failure but as far as dumb, popcorn flicks, it's the same as Transformers.
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No it isn't, Top Critics at RT scored Avatar at 94%.
Transformers scored at 17%.

Metacritic scored Avatar at 83 and Transformers at 35.

These scores represent a BIG DIFFERENCE

Here is the difference Transformers is the worst rated movie that made the most money ever. That ratio baffles me, but whatever.
 
I took my brother and Dad to see Avatar at AMC Cinemas in Chicago Suburbs and HOLY SHIT!!! This movie was STUNNING. Let me start off by saying if you haven't seen the movie in 3-d your missing out on a hell of an experience.
Let me also say that I dragged my brother and Dad unwillingly to see a 10:45 pm showing on Dec 23rd and they were pissed at me and did not want to see the movie(we were down from Wisconsin for Christmas). Well after the movie was over I couldn't get my old man and brother to shut up about how Fracking Awesome it was. This movie will change movies forever. Fuck HDTV. Thats just a bullshit gimmic to get people to pay extra so they can watch a standard sharp image on a larger screen. This makes HDTV look like being Blind. I bet you thought I was gonna compare it to Black and white TV. Nope its more like watching HDTV is like being blind...
I want to see all movies in 3-d. Especially Star Trek...
 
Thespeckledtree said:
T'Baio said:
Box Office Mojo is reporting that Avatar broke the Christmas Eve gross record with over $11 million. It's consistently been getting over $16 million a day all week. The film is almost at $400 million worldwide, and will probably be there after tonight. :) So much for failure...
Click to expand...

It's not going to be a financial or a technical failure but as far as dumb, popcorn flicks, it's the same as Transformers.
Click to expand...

Ummm, no. Transformers skull-fucked you senseless with explosions, very low-brow humor, and uncomprehensable action.

Avatar has a story and much more watchable action.
 
As someone else pointed out on sequel possibilities:

They're looking at about 12 - 15 years before a response from Earth arrives.

The response will come since Earth needs the superconductor badly.

However, the RDA complex on Pandora is totally untouched. It has power, and is self-sufficient we can presume: there's no way all those guns, mechs, and VTOLs were shipped to Pandora. The expanded universe material indicates they're assembling vehicles on the ground in a manufactury.

That's 12 - 15 years for the human scientists allowed refuge to work with the Na'vi, build arms and defensive weapons, and formulate plans for defending the planet. If anyone on Pandora has a shred of common sense, they'll realize they need to talk the Na'vi into using heavy artillery in an emergency as Earth will be back.
 
DrummerBoy said:
Thespeckledtree said:
T'Baio said:
Box Office Mojo is reporting that Avatar broke the Christmas Eve gross record with over $11 million. It's consistently been getting over $16 million a day all week. The film is almost at $400 million worldwide, and will probably be there after tonight. :) So much for failure...
Click to expand...

It's not going to be a financial or a technical failure but as far as dumb, popcorn flicks, it's the same as Transformers.
Click to expand...

Ummm, no. Transformers skull-fucked you senseless with explosions, very low-brow humor, and uncomprehensable action.

Avatar has a story and much more watchable action.
Click to expand...

The original Transformers; I remember everyone saying there was a story there.

Avatar and Transformers are basically the same sort of movie. Very, very light on the story, heavy on the action and the special effects.
 
I noticed that in 3-d you can have very fast action and almost a shakey cam thing going on but you can still see everything and its not just a blur. I wish they would have used this on Star Trek. Then I might be able to see things in some of the action sequences...
 
I was thinking about this movie, and some of my favorite parts were where Sully is living with and learning the traditions of the tribe. Reminded me of Peter Parker discovering his powers in the first Spider-Man, and how that stuff as actually better than the pure "plot" parts of the movie. I actually think that's a good movie comparison.
 
Thespeckledtree said:
The original Transformers; I remember everyone saying there was a story there.
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Hi. I'm one of 'everyone'. Or anyway I did post here when Transformers came out (under the Kegek moniker, but whatever). I was also comparing it to the first Michael Bay Transformers film as I hadn't seen the sequel. It's a pretty ineptly paced film with crappy, difficult to follow action and I lambasted it for that. I never wanted a smart movie, I wanted a dumb movie with lots of comprehensible robot fights.

Say what you will about Avatar, but it's always swiftly moving, quickly gets to the point, and doesn't spin its wheels interminably. It's a decidedly longer film and yet I was never bored out of my goddamn skull.
 
James Cameron discussing the possible directions an Avatar sequel could take:

http://www.firstshowing.net/2009/12...and-james-cameron-sequels-more/#ixzz0alpQtCJH


Snippet (just in case, put in spoiler code):

"We've mapped out the planet and the sky. [The planet] in Pandora's sky - it's called Polyphemus and it's the primary [planet] for a system of moons, just like in our solar system - Jupiter has 50 some moons, they're still discovering smaller ones all the time. Yea, we have some story ideas for how to branch out into other moons of the Polyphemus and the Alpha Centauri A solar system. But we gotta make some money with this movie first before we think about the sequel!"
 
Okay, that is cool.

MOAR PLANETARY ROMANCE!

I want to see what crazy stuff is on other worlds now. Granted, we only saw part of Pandora and I had assumed a sequel would break the mould and show us... more of Pandora! Some part of the planet that isn't jungle, we got brief looks at that when our hero went off to round up the Na'vi tribes.

But new worlds are also cool.

All that said how does that, if at all, tie in with the human/Na'vi conflict? Na'vi don't have interstellar travel so they can't go to those planets... yet, and if Sam Worthington returns he'll be doing so as a solely Na'vi character so they've got to be in it somehow.
 
Kegg said:
Okay, that is cool.

MOAR PLANETARY ROMANCE!

I want to see what crazy stuff is on other worlds now. Granted, we only saw part of Pandora and I had assumed a sequel would break the mould and show us... more of Pandora! Some part of the planet that isn't jungle, we got brief looks at that when our hero went off to round up the Na'vi tribes.

But new worlds are also cool.

All that said how does that, if at all, tie in with the human/Na'vi conflict? Na'vi don't have interstellar travel so they can't go to those planets... yet, and if Sam Worthington returns he'll be doing so as a solely Na'vi character so they've got to be in it somehow.
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Yeah, that is a good question, especially as it also says in that article that
"Cameron confirms that he won't be making a prequel and will continue to focus on the two characters we're already familiar with. "We'll follow Jake and Neytiri," he says. He's got a big idea, actually, that hasn't been revealed yet. "I have a trilogy-scaled arc of story right now, but I haven't really put any serious work into writing a script."

so i assume that probably

Jake and Neytiri and the remaining humans will take over the tech left behind by the mercs, which possibly includes space shuttles, and they will use it to visit the other worlds

:shrug:
 
Yeah, I guess so. Further thoughts:

I find it unlikely that the film will have no humans. So whatever happens on the new planet may also involve humans - easiest answer, well, maybe it also has unobtanium and they figure they'll choose the path of least resistance and screw that world over.

Also, the Na'vi would have to get there either with human aid or... er... some fantastical creature. Yeah, that's not a great idea, but with the sort of ecology we've seen in Pandora it's not entirely unbelievable.

I wonder, what about a film where humans and Na'vi work together against a third alien race on that planet? Or Na'vi and that race versus humans, or humans and that race versus Na'vi? That'd be interesting, anyway.

Also, a trilogy arc could either mean two more films... or three. It depends whether or not Avatar is part of that arc, though I suppose that's the more likely option. He's aired the idea of making Battle Angel a trilogy as well, so clearly, the guy wants to be busy with the sci-fi epics.

Which is pretty goddamn great, to be honest.
 
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