Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made.

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

And I will NEVER understand how they could hire an action movie editor to direct a science fiction movie.

He directed a couple of other action movies. It's not like he had NO experience.

Besides, Trek hired sci-fi actors to direct feature length movies. You have to start somewhere, don't you?

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

And I will NEVER understand how they could hire an action movie editor to direct a science fiction movie.

He directed a couple of other action movies. It's not like he had NO experience.

Besides, Trek hired sci-fi actors to direct feature length movies. You have to start somewhere, don't you?

Yeah, Executive Decision and US Marshals. Those were not entirely bad, but for a science fiction movie, you need someone who has a sense for visuals, and not only for action. This lack of sense becomes apparent every time in the movie. "Alien planet environment? Let's just put a yellow filter on the lens." is only one example.

Paramount hired sci-fi actors to direct, but only after they had already done sci-fi episodes to test the waters. And since these actors came from the show, they knew the characters.

Nemesis would have been a lot better had Frakes directed it.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

And I will NEVER understand how they could hire an action movie editor to direct a science fiction movie.

He directed a couple of other action movies. It's not like he had NO experience.

Besides, Trek hired sci-fi actors to direct feature length movies. You have to start somewhere, don't you?

Yeah, Executive Decision and US Marshals. Those were not entirely bad, but for a science fiction movie, you need someone who has a sense for visuals, and not only for action. This lack of sense becomes apparent every time in the movie. "Alien planet environment? Let's just put a yellow filter on the lens." is only one example.

Paramount hired sci-fi actors to direct, but only after they had already done sci-fi episodes to test the waters. And since these actors came from the show, they knew the characters.

Nemesis would have been a lot better had Frakes directed it.

Well, a movie starts with a script.

If the script is shit. No director is going to save it.

 

[GalaxyX]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

Clean up the script and let Frakes direct it and it would have been First Contact #2, which would have been fine with me.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

There was never going to be anymore TNG either. Cinema was the only avenue left for that series, once Roddenberry died, & included a seven season limitation, in his will.

That is balderdash.

The actors signed the standard Hollywood five-year contract, then negotiated hefty new pay deals for Season Six, and again for Season Seven. Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner priced themselves out of the running for any kind of TV pay deal for an eighth season so, if there was to be any more TNG featuring them, it had to be a feature film.

TV SF spends a lot of money on SPFX and has little left over from the payment of actor salaries.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

That is balderdash.

The actors signed the standard Hollywood five-year contract, then negotiated hefty new pay deals for Season Six, and again for Season Seven. Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner priced themselves out of the running for any kind of TV pay deal for an eighth season so, if there was to be any more TNG featuring them, it had to be a feature film.

TV SF spends a lot of money on SPFX and has little left over from the payment of actor salaries.

Exactly, it was simple economics. The show was becoming too expensive to make, with falling ratings, and plenty of episodes to sell for syndicated reruns.

Paramount wanted a Star Trek show on their new network, and a new Star Trek movie. Since the TOS cast had called it a day, it all added up to the end of TNG, that cast continuing in movies, and a new show on UPN.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

I'm talking about ending the series prematurely to concentrate on a movie franchise...

Look if polled I'd be willing to be a fair share of TNG would have prefered a couple more seasons to the the general misfires that were most of the TNG film series.

I can see 24 doing the same thing. A two hour movie can never compete with the richness a full season of a series can bring.

I think 24, and I am a huge fan, has run its course. When both the lead actor and the creators say pretty much that the show has lost creativity? Its time to end it before it does an XFILES and stays on too long...as for a movie version? I will have to wait and see about that..

Rob

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

I think it was just a matter of seven seasons being enough episodes to syndicate. GR didn't have anything to do with it. Once the 'tipping point' of seven seasons was reached, it was simply more cost effective to end the show and syndicate the existing episodes.

TNG had enough episodes to syndicate (or re-syndicate) by the end of season 5.

As for 24, maybe you all are watching a different show than me but it's been pretty largely creatively bankrupt for years.

24: Redemption proved they could tell a shortened story in semi-feature format. It only makes sense that given the tropes of the series now being done and re-done to death that they'd go for a bigger-scale production for Jack Bauer.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

And I will NEVER understand how they could hire an action movie editor to direct a science fiction movie.

He directed a couple of other action movies. It's not like he had NO experience.

Superman: The Movie. Casino Royale (2006). Die Hard 2. Tommy. The Omen. Outland. Executive Decision.

Likely, Baird got the directing assignment as part of his overall deal with Paramount. It happens all the time, just depends on how good your agent is. Once again boys and girls it can all be traced to the almighty dollar sign.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

And I will NEVER understand how they could hire an action movie editor to direct a science fiction movie.

He directed a couple of other action movies. It's not like he had NO experience.

Superman: The Movie. Casino Royale (2006). Die Hard 2. Tommy. The Omen. Outland. Executive Decision.

Likely, Baird got the directing assignment as part of his overall deal with Paramount. It happens all the time, just depends on how good your agent is. Once again boys and girls it can all be traced to the almighty dollar sign.

Yet directing and editing are really two entirely different things. He directed only two movies: Executive Decision and US Marshals.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

I'm not saying editing and directing aren't different things. Obviously, they are.

What I was saying was that in his overall deal with Paramount to edit for them, he probably had an added benefit/option to direct as well, and Nemesis just happened to be the slot they gave him.

This kind of optioning happens all the time in Hollywood contracts and has more to do with the people than with the property.

Example: In 1985, Patrick Duffy left Dallas at the end of the season. He came back in the 1986-1987 season, but had his deal to return sweetened with the added option that he could produce and star in another series for Lorimar Telepictures (the production company that made Dallas). Thus, 1991 in when Dallas ended, Duffy went on to star in Step By Step for Lorimar.

Baird directing Nemesis was less about creative instinct or who was best suited to direct the film and simply more about contract options. He only directed two movies by that point, so what? George Lucas had only directed two films before making Star Wars. Spielberg had only made one film by the time he directed Jaws. Additionally, the studio *wanted* someone new to the franchise directing. In retrospect we can now see that this, combined with Logan's awful script led to a serious letdown. But, live and learn.

The point, summarized: It was a business decision by Paramount, not a creative one.

 

[Harvey]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

Not to disagree with your point--it makes perfect sense that Baird ended up on Star Trek: Nemesis to fulfill studio obligations of some sort--but your examples of Spielberg and Lucas aren't the finest ones around. Spielberg was an established television director before coming to Jaws, and had already directed the well-reviewed The Sugarland Express and Duel (though a TV movie, it saw some theatrical distribution). Lucas had only two directing assignments under his belt (beyond his work as a student filmmaker, of course), but he did have a hit with American Graffiti and was also the writer of Star Wars.

Baird, to draw a comparison, had directed two contemporary action films, neither of which was a major hit at the box office, before coming to Star Trek: Nemesis, a film he did not write.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

Fair enough... however the way the point was brought up earlier "Baird had only directed two films before Nemesis" seemed to imply that because of the limited number of directing jobs he'd had, he was thus unqualified. My main point in citing Spielberg and Lucas, who as we all know did have other directing jobs before their big hits, had also only done limited work prior to their first big successes.

I guess my question then becomes -- is the problem the fact that Baird did not have enough experience (in some people's eyes), or is it that he just plain sucks as a director?

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Re: Jack Bauer and 24 series on precipice of same mistake ST. TNG made

Fair enough... however the way the point was brought up earlier "Baird had only directed two films before Nemesis" seemed to imply that because of the limited number of directing jobs he'd had, he was thus unqualified. My main point in citing Spielberg and Lucas, who as we all know did have other directing jobs before their big hits, had also only done limited work prior to their first big successes.

I guess my question then becomes -- is the problem the fact that Baird did not have enough experience (in some people's eyes), or is it that he just plain sucks as a director?

Well, Baird is an editor....so he would/should have some sense of film narrative.

As I probably mentioned in the movie section, there were couple of issues:

*Baird didn't do his research...i.e. He thought that LaForge was an alien...

*Story flow; certain scenes just didn't need to be there....or tweaked...

*Shinzon wasn't that interesting.

*The film was only marketed to the TNG crowd; it came off as a routine Trek film.