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I've returned to Deep Space Nine...

That's quite true. Part of what has led me to do episodic reviews is my love for Battlestar Galactica and awareness of this show helping to lay the groundwork for a series that serialized to come about in the 2000's.

Hence, I really look forward to seeing the show get more arc-based later on.
 
2x04
"Invasive Procedures"


"Don't call me Benjamin."
-Sisko

Seriously, Verad. Stop. It's annoying.

Is it just my imagination, or has the station been evacuated (to varying degrees of success) twice in two episodes? And is it just my imagination, or did Quark stay behind both times, while his brother departed? Granted, he has his own scheming little reason for staying this time. But this is an odd situation nevertheless. If I were a producer, I would have pushed this episode back a few weeks... oh well, who am I to judge?

Oh, right... I guess that's what I'm here for. I digress.

"Invasive Procedures" is another one of those episodes with brilliant aspects and blatant flaws. Its finished form is enjoyable, with an interesting concept and some quality acting on the part of the antagonist. Sisko is also done well here, and Brooks brings a cunning, underhanded performance to life to match John Glover's awkward and socially inept Verad. But a contrived premise and some questionable directing doesn't secure it a lofty seat next to DS9's finest hours.

Thanks to a violent plasma eruption, the station has been evacuated of everyone but its senior staff. Oh, and Quark, too -- he just so happens to have been left behind, as he (obviously lying) attempts to make it seem, though we soon learn he has a stake in some unethical practices to come. So right from the start, we've got all the title cast (except Jake, but honestly, who's going to argue with me if I contend that half the time the writers don't really have the right to list Cirroc Lofton as a main character?) and everyone's gathered and unaware of any unnatural impending danger. When a ship caught up in the plasma eruption claims to require immediate assistance, it's all open doors and smiles until its crew catches ours wholly off-guard and our heroes are quickly apprehended.

I must make brief mention of the request made by one of the Klingons (say, is that Tim Russ?) that Odo place himself inside a box and be sealed away. While I found some of the hostile takeover events underwhelming and uninteresting, this got me laughing, at least on the inside. You know these guys have done their homework when the first thing they do is place Odo in a stasis chamber.

So we quickly learn that Quark played a hand in assisting these armed strangers in their mission, though he had done so to strike a sale with one of the Klingons. He soon realizes he was used; the Klingon had no intention of making any bargains, but rather, he's here as a mercenary for a Trill named Verad. I have a huge problem with all this, by the way, and in browsing Memory Alpha's article on the episode, I found I'm not alone. Armin Shimerman himself has apparently gone on record for stating exactly what I was thinking when the hour was over: Quark commits an unforgivable crime and nothing happens to him for it. No, he didn't realize the ship's passengers were intending to do something terrible (more on that shortly, of course). But he let them in, and while I realize he does something to help reclaim the station later in the episode, it all comes off as unfinished when Kira quite seriously informs him he's through on Deep Space Nine and we don't even get to see Odo chide him about it.

Back to the plot. Verad has hired the Klingon mercenaries, and, it should be noted, he's also working with a woman by the name of Mareel -- his lover. Verad's plan is a bold one. He has dedicated his entire life to being chosen as a host to a symbiont, but after having been rejected despite his hard work, he's become desperate and obsessed. He wants to take the Dax symbiont from Jadzia and make it his own, and he chose her because he can make his grand escape through the wormhole and never be heard from again. Besides the obvious infraction on both Jadzia's and the Dax symbiont's rights, there's also the small issue of Jadzia dying within hours of the transplant. Despite his flimsy public speaking abilities, Verad is clearly committed to his task, and he goes through with the operation at once.

The majority of the episode's remainder is spent with Sisko scheming to make Mareel see the truth in his words, that Verad will not be the same as the man she fell in love with once he emerges as Verad Dax. She won't hear it, but after he emerges full of renewed confidence and vigor, it soon becomes apparent the commander was correct. Despite Verad's sudden arrogance, Mareel continues to follow him until she realizes that contrary to his continued claims, he plans on ditching her and running off on his own. The rest is predictable, but there are some strong moments here and there. Mareel's actress portrays a slowly-changing woman rather well, and while I've already spoken against the usage of Quark's character in the episode, the scene where he assists Bashir in outwitting one of the Klingons is a good one. There's also the bit with Verad Dax ceaselessly referring to Sisko as 'Benjamin', as Curzon and then Jadzia have done, and it's annoying but it's supposed to be.

Well, that's about it for this one. "Invasive Procedures", like I said in the beginning of the review, has plenty of goodness to it, but I simply can't say it was anything to write home about. The mind game Sisko plays is exciting, but things progress down a very narrow, routine path. This is a decent episode with a solid premise, but its execution could have used some polishing.

Rating: 6.5/10
 
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If I were a producer, I would have pushed this episode back a few weeks...
I would have just had it happen during the first evacuation, before everyone comes back, and not bother with a second evacuation at all.

What I find notable about this episode is that this is the second episode which is designed to focus on Dax's character, and in both cases Jadzia herself is barely in it.

In "Dax," we hear much more about Curzon, and Jadzia says about three words. We learn nothing about Jadzia as a person and much more about Curzon. In "Invasive Procedures," Jadzia is left unconscious for most of the show and we're left watching Verad Dax.

You can see from the beginning that the writers weren't really sure what to do with Dax as a character or how to handle the Trill concept. Which basically leads to her leaving at the end of season 6.

For some reason, it feels like we learn more about Ezri in one season than we do about Jadzia in six. And now, in the Lit, Ezri has gone onto be one of the pivotal figures in galactic history... whereas Jadzia remains the DS9 party girl.
 
Isn't this the episode where Kira gets her butt handed to her by an innocent looking
woman? lol

It sure is. I came very close to commenting on this, actually. That's another issue I had with it... it doesn't seem logical that Mareel was able to overpower Kira.

I would have just had it happen during the first evacuation, before everyone comes back, and not bother with a second evacuation at all.

That too. I suppose the staff just really wanted Sisko and O'Brien to be able to run off and have a happy ending at the conclusion of "The Siege".

What I find notable about this episode is that this is the second episode which is designed to focus on Dax's character, and in both cases Jadzia herself is barely in it.

In "Dax," we hear much more about Curzon, and Jadzia says about three words. We learn nothing about Jadzia as a person and much more about Curzon. In "Invasive Procedures," Jadzia is left unconscious for most of the show and we're left watching Verad Dax.

You can see from the beginning that the writers weren't really sure what to do with Dax as a character or how to handle the Trill concept. Which basically leads to her leaving at the end of season 6.

For some reason, it feels like we learn more about Ezri in one season than we do about Jadzia in six. And now, in the Lit, Ezri has gone onto be one of the pivotal figures in galactic history... whereas Jadzia remains the DS9 party girl.

I'll have to re-evaluate what I think of Jadzia's development by the time she's on her way out, but so far I see your point. Between the previous poster and yourself, you've both brought up strong points I very nearly decided to address. If I see a third Jadzia episode in a row where she's barely in it, I'm definitely going to include this complaint in the write-up.
 
2x05
"Cardassians"

"I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences."
-Garak

Well gee, welcome back, Garak. After a single-episode encounter quite early into the first season, you've gone missing for far more episodes than you should have. Unsurprisingly, his presence alone secures this outing a spot on the positive end of the spectrum. But well beyond even plain, simple Garak's timelessness, "Cardassians" is really an episode that fires on all cylinders and doesn't let go.

As Bashir and Garak enjoy their most recent encounter at the Replimat, quickly reminding us how ridiculous it is that we've had to wait this long to see them together again with witty exchanges and undeniable chemistry, a young Cardassian boy is seen arriving alongside a middle-aged Bajoran man. Intrigued by this pairing, Garak attempts to introduce himself to the child, but is met with a fierce bite to the hand and the equally-threatening glare of his adoptive father.

Not moments after Julian races to inform his commander of the event, none other than Gul Dukat wishes to speak with Sisko. Unsurprisingly, it's about the boy: Dukat insists with a great attempt at sincerity that the child is yet another example of the horrors of the Occupation's conclusion, and that the child is needed in order to aid the noble Dukat in his valiant effort to make the civilians in charge of the evacuation pay for what they have left behind. It was around this point that I was thinking to myself how it sure would be nice to see the talented Marc Alaimo and his Cardassian character return to the station for a few scenes, and having forgotten this would happen later on in the episode, I was quite pleasantly surprised. Alaimo has such stage presence, and there has never been a Cardassian who has looked better in that military attire than Dukat.

Matters grow increasingly complicated in a well-executed manner as accusations are flung to and fro, and Rugal, the child, is taken from the care of his Bajoran adoptive father after one such accusation insinuates child abuse. This touchy subject is only one of several sophisticated themes presented in "Cardassians": we also see multiple examples of racism and we're made to see the vast loathing of all Cardassians by the Bajoran survivors. There are many things to love about this episode, not least of which is Chief O'Brien's blatant racism and realization of it. Keiko actually steals a scene here in which she reprimands her husband for his statement on Cardassians, and this sets into motion a believable partial redemption of the man's issues.

Bashir and Garak never miss a beat, and when the latter's enigmatic insistence that the duo visit Bajor takes place, Bashir's subsequent request for a runabout and Sisko's comedic reaction is great for a laugh. Once on Bajor, more evidence is presented that Garak is far from plain and simple, and it's handled in the usual no-questions-answered style that intrigues plenty of fans, Bashir included. Amidst a fount of strong dialogue, there's a very powerful little side note at a relocation center the two visit for further information. Two Cardassian children, upon seeing Garak, are led to believe they can finally go home to Cardassia; indeed, as their hearts sink when they're told that's not the case, the moment is emotional. Later, Garak remarks to Bashir that children without parents have no place in Cardassian society. This episode excels in that it both deepens the three-dimensionality and good people of the Cardassian race and also emphasizes its darker aspects.

But it's not so dark as to be villainous, the Cardassian outlook on family as everything. At this point in the episode, Dukat has long since informed Sisko that Rugal's father has allegedly been located, one Kotan Pa'Dar, high-ranking politician. When Pa'Dar arrives on Deep Space Nine, O'Brien and he have a little chat before his son is presented before him, and in the course of their conversation, a striking line is heard from the boy's father:

"On Cardassia, family is everything. We care for our parents and our children with equal devotion. In some households, four generations eat at the same table. Family is... everything. And I have failed in my responsibilities to my family."

It's become increasingly obvious as the episode goes on that we're learning a lot more about Cardassian culture than we've been treated to in the past. This dialogue snippet works well to show us the positive side of the coin in relation to how this race views members of a family, and as I said before, paves the way for a brilliantly three-dimensional, open-to-interpretations kind of people.

Cornered by Bashir into explaining some of his thoughts on the ordeal, Garak informs the good doctor of just how strange it all is. Dukat lost his job as Prefect of Bajor when Cardassian politicians decided to leave the system, and yet now he's on a crusade to 'save the children' and reunite a son with his long-lost, politician father? (By the way, Dukat's 'for the children!' bit toward the end is just classic, because as the girlfriend pointed out, no one in the history of ever who says that kind of thing on-screen ever truly means it.) Revelations pour in as Proka, the Bajoran adoptive father, and Pa'Dar, the father-by-blood, agree to Sisko as arbitrator in deciding who gets custody of Rugal.

Dukat arrives at the station and the Bashir-Garak Party (TM) unveil the truth: Dukat and others alongside him are using Rugal to undermine Pa'Dar; eight years ago, an officer under Dukat, then the commander of Terok Nor (DS9), brought a four-year-old Rugal to be raised by Bajorans, with the plan now set in motion to later retrieve him and use him as a political tool. For the first time in the series, I'd like to add, we begin to see the depth of Dukat's scheming and ambition.

The decision at the end of the episode to give custody of Rugal to Pa'Dar is something I'm not 100% sure I agree with, but then, I might have found myself saying the same thing if he'd been made to stay with Proka. Sisko and O'Brien both present as Rugal is taken from the station is a smart move on the part of the writers; all three men gathered here are fathers, and the two Starfleet fathers exchange an unmistakable look.

"Cardassians" is an exemplary effort, and it's one of the best, if not the best, world-building episode yet. It proves what DS9's most compelling assets are, at least in these first few seasons: complex political and allegorical tales woven together by the cloth of intrigue.

And yes, that was a Garak pun.

Rating: 8.5/10
 
It sure is. I came very close to commenting on this, actually. That's another issue I had with it... it doesn't seem logical that Mareel was able to overpower Kira.

Yeah, don't you think they sometimes make Trek Women a little too tough and violent like?

Women are supposed to be just as tough and have just as much fighting ability as men according to Trek Lore, but sometimes, when you take an extra look at some of these episodes, it just seems weird..

I got that impression from Kira in the last few episodes of the 7th season...


The Cardassians;

This is one of those episodes that you initially ignore, then later on when you go back to it, you learn all types of stuff about trek lore.

Something was said about the pullout from Bajor being made by the civil authorities which is what you'd miss if you didn't see thgis episode.

Yes...Garak something about his character....another Kai Winn type and very intriguing-when you see him, you never think of an actor portraying a sneaky person, he's simply a sneaky.. suspicious person...
 
Yeah, don't you think they sometimes make Trek Women a little too tough and violent like?

Women are supposed to be just as tough and have just as much fighting ability as men according to Trek Lore, but sometimes, when you take an extra look at some of these episodes, it just seems weird..

Not to mention, I don't care how tough you are as a former consort, it seems silly to think you'd be able to take down a former resistance member...

I got that impression from Kira in the last few episodes of the 7th season...

I'll have to keep an eye out for that, but I think I know what you mean.


The Cardassians;

This is one of those episodes that you initially ignore, then later on when you go back to it, you learn all types of stuff about trek lore.

Something was said about the pullout from Bajor being made by the civil authorities which is what you'd miss if you didn't see thgis episode.

Yes...Garak something about his character....another Kai Winn type and very intriguing-when you see him, you never think of an actor portraying a sneaky person, he's simply a sneaky.. suspicious person...

Yeah, the civil authorities overriding the military is actually pretty important, isn't it? And yes, I love the mysterious characters on this show. They're done well and as you gradually unravel who they are, they remain interesting.
 
I've always liked Cardassians, it's one of the episodes that defined Cardassian culture and made season 2 one of my favorite seasons of DS9: the universe-building, the development of recurring characters, the explorations of Cardassian and Bajoran cultures... There is some fluff in season 2 that brings it down, but I still cannot understand how so many people can consider it "one of the bad seasons", with episodes like the Circle trilogy, Cardassians, Necessary Evil, The Maquis, The Wire and the last few episodes of the season, including the only good MU episode of DS9, and the introdction of the Dominion in the finale.


It sure is. I came very close to commenting on this, actually. That's another issue I had with it... it doesn't seem logical that Mareel was able to overpower Kira.
Yeah, don't you think they sometimes make Trek Women a little too tough and violent like?

Women are supposed to be just as tough and have just as much fighting ability as men according to Trek Lore, but sometimes, when you take an extra look at some of these episodes, it just seems weird..

I got that impression from Kira in the last few episodes of the 7th season...
Well, since both Kira and Mareel are women, that can hardly an issue here, can it? It's more like, why does an experienced and skilled resistance fighter so easily knocked out by a woman from the 'pleasure planet'? Did they get extensive fighting training there? Unlikely. We see Kira time and again in the show beating male soldiers much bigger than she is, and those Cardies and Klingons should certainly have more combat experience and training that Mareel, which makes this all the more ridiculous. It's just one of those things that serve the plot, I guess. I'm glad that Kira didn't become the Worf of DS9, though - he used to be beaten up by every alien of the week so we could see how tough the alien was... then later in DS9 he was beating up 7 JemHadars in a row. Well, let's face it, Trek fights never make sense!
 
I've always liked Cardassians, it's one of the episodes that defined Cardassian culture and made season 2 one of my favorite seasons of DS9: the universe-building, the development of recurring characters, the explorations of Cardassian and Bajoran cultures... There is some fluff in season 2 that brings it down, but I still cannot understand how so many people can consider it "one of the bad seasons", with episodes like the Circle trilogy, Cardassians, Necessary Evil, The Maquis, The Wire and the last few episodes of the season, including the only good MU episode of DS9, and the introdction of the Dominion in the finale.

People are just blinded by the pyrotechnics involved from the fourth season onward, I guess. I mean, everyone will have their opinions and anyone who can explain what it is about the first few seasons that really rubs them the wrong way is fine in my book. But the second season of Deep Space Nine looks to be such a great one judging by what I've read on it and what I've seen so far. I think there's always going to be some fluff, by the way... I remember enjoying the final season quite a bit, but let's face it: there's probably two too many holodeck episodes for the last year.

Well, since both Kira and Mareel are women, that can hardly an issue here, can it? It's more like, why does an experienced and skilled resistance fighter so easily knocked out by a woman from the 'pleasure planet'? Did they get extensive fighting training there? Unlikely. We see Kira time and again in the show beating male soldiers much bigger than she is, and those Cardies and Klingons should certainly have more combat experience and training that Mareel, which makes this all the more ridiculous. It's just one of those things that serve the plot, I guess. I'm glad that Kira didn't become the Worf of DS9, though - he used to be beaten up by every alien of the week so we could see how tough the alien was... then later in DS9 he was beating up 7 JemHadars in a row. Well, let's face it, Trek fights never make sense!

They really don't. I'm just glad there wasn't a whipping boy in this series.

Wait... *looks at O'Brien*
 
For some reason, it feels like we learn more about Ezri in one season than we do about Jadzia in six. And now, in the Lit, Ezri has gone onto be one of the pivotal figures in galactic history... whereas Jadzia remains the DS9 party girl.

In fairness, getting murdered does tend to be hard on one's long-term career plans ;)

To address the question of the Trill, I agree with you, lvsxy808, and with Jeff, that the writers struggle to do anything interesting with the Trill concept.

They do fail in interesting ways, though, which, I guess, is the next best thing to actually succeeding. Harry Kim and Chakotay would have benefited greatly from such failure :)

Jadzia is supposed to have been trained, like any joined Trill, to prevent her personality from being overwhelmed by that of a past host, but in the end that is exactly what happens to Jadzia: she is taken over by Curzon, essentially. I doubt the writers did this on purpose, but it is quite interesting that it happened anyway.

I think this is related to a larger issue with the Trill, which is that their culture is built on a series of tabous and dogmas that really only become interesting when they are transgressed. Trills are supposed to be trained for joining, but Ezri benefits greatly as a character from being unprepared. She also goes ahead and does all the things joined Trills aren't supposed to do, i.e. revisit the life of her previous host, get involved with Worf, etc.

There are many similar examples, such as Rejoined (obviously), and Equilibrium (where the capacity for great numbers of Trill to be joined is revealed, despite established dogma to the contrary). Jadzia would probably have been more interesting had the writers identified this tabou/transgression structure within Trill culture sooner, or had exploited it better.

It's noteworthy that, in Facets, the only two past lives that are interesting are Joran, who was never meant to be joined, and Curzon, who wants to live again (and eventually succeeds, through Jadzia instead of Odo).

Another interesting thing about Jadzia: she ends up working better as a wise counselor with a wry sense of humor, Sisko's "old man," which was the original intent, than in any other role. For all the talk from Ira Behr about realizing that she was really a "tough cookie," I don't think this approach really did anything for Jadzia other than turn her into Klingon Party Girl. As a friend to Sisko, Kira, Bashir and Quark, or as a playful observer in episodes like Trials and Tribble-ations, or playing the Romulan while debating Sisko in ItPM, the character works fine. So, that is odd. It's as if, the more the writers tried to turn her into a "tough cookie," the more she excelled in her original capacity as wise old man.

They really don't.

No. That said, I don't really mind seeing Kira get her clock cleaned occasionally. She's not a super-heroine. It's also good for the character in the long run that she isn't limited to the original concept of a tough resistance fighter. Being strong, yet vulnerable is one of the hallmarks of Kira's character. The writers are fortunately comfortable with this approach in her case because they feel they have established a strong enough foundation for the character that losing some fights or showing a vulnerable side will not undermine what they are doing overall.

This example isn't an especially interesting one, but anyway I don't see it as an issue since it never became a habit.

... I still cannot understand how so many people can consider it "one of the bad seasons", with episodes like the Circle trilogy, Cardassians, Necessary Evil, The Maquis, The Wire and the last few episodes of the season, including the only good MU episode of DS9, and the introdction of the Dominion in the finale.

It is utterly mystifying, especially given that there is probably a bigger gap in quality between seasons 1 and 2 than between any other two seasons of DS9. The show is pretty consistent from there on out, though I think there is actually a slight dip in overall quality in season 3 when Peter Allen Fields leaves the show, some of the TNG writers come on board, and DS9 starts to integrate more of an action-adventure element.

It's worth noting, though, that detailed reviewers tend not to make this mistake. Jammer, Tim Lynch, and Michelle Erica Green (who as far as I know are the most accessible on-line reviews written during the show's original run) are all in agreement on the overall high-quality of season 2 and the less focused tendencies of season 3.

Lumping seasons 1 and 2 together as far as quality is concerned does not stand up to much scrutiny. I think it's mostly a result of internet group-think on the one hand, and on the other hand a result of the fact that people are often looking for a more action-adventure approach when they turn on Star Trek.

I love season 2 partly because it is an absolutely unique season among all the seasons of Trek that have been made. The stories and character interactions are very different from anything we will see later on DS9 or in any other Trek show. (Granted, there is a bit of a lull mid-season, but even these more mediocre episodes contribute something in the long haul.)
 
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Would you say the second season is your favorite overall? And yeah, I've also noticed the unanimous recognition from Jammer, Tim Lynch and Michelle Erica Green concerning season two. I try not to look them up too often for fear of winding up paraphrasing their usually-great reviews, but it's hard to ignore Jammer; he was so damn terrific in his writing.
 
Would you say the second season is your favorite overall?

No, probably not. Seasons 2, 5 and 7 are my favorites. If I were forced to pick one it would probably be 5, though I'm quite pleased to be able to watch them all ;)

And yeah, I've also noticed the unanimous recognition from Jammer, Tim Lynch and Michelle Erica Green concerning season two. I try not to look them up too often for fear of winding up paraphrasing their usually-great reviews, but it's hard to ignore Jammer; he was so damn terrific in his writing.

I can see why you wouldn't want to "taint" your own reviews, so to speak.
 
Something I noticed about "going back to DS9" was that I was really disappointed with its lack of depth as a "Trek" series. The plots and messages were weak, problems which were amplified by a reliance on fairly cliche character-driven plots and development compared to other Star Treks. While I was intrigued and refreshed by this at first, I feel really underwhelmed the second time around. I found myself watching it, and I was like, "...wait, this is Star Trek? The only moral I've learned is that Bashir is a sex offender."

Where is the vision for humanity's future? Where is the moral message? Am I just being really TNG and waiting to be indoctrinated or something?
 
Something I noticed about "going back to DS9" was that I was really disappointed with its lack of depth as a "Trek" series. The plots and messages were weak, problems which were amplified by a reliance on fairly cliche character-driven plots and development compared to other Star Treks. While I was intrigued and refreshed by this at first, I feel really underwhelmed the second time around. I found myself watching it, and I was like, "...wait, this is Star Trek? The only moral I've learned is that Bashir is a sex offender."

Where is the vision for humanity's future? Where is the moral message? Am I just being really TNG and waiting to be indoctrinated or something?


You probably need to drink more Kool-Aid. I recommend grape ;)
 
I had the same impression of the first 2 seasons of DS9 when it first aired...

No fireworks, no awesome ships, no Best of Both Worlds scenarios.

So I dismissed them as boring.

When the 4 th season came along and we get the Jem Hadar, Worf, and all the battles, I paid much more attention.

Then after the show went off, and you watched the battle scenes too much, that's when those 1-3 seasons become interesting to watch.

There's a lot of information in them that you'd miss if you didn't watch, and the dialog and acting and subject matter, is surprising too.


I got that impression from Kira in the last few episodes of the 7th season...


I'll have to keep an eye out for that, but I think I know what you mean.

Kira beat the snot out of Damar when he placed a hand on Ziyal to bring her back.

In the last few episodes of the 7th season, she seems even more gruff and tough. She beats up the Legate who who puts a hand on her.

She seems, well, gruff towards Garak in simple conversations. It was like her character exploded into this tough, somewhat gritty veteran type.

Maybe I got that impression because I saw her originally as a softer, peaceable woman who balanced it with her resistance training.


Now, I know, it comes with the territory, she's a resistance fighter, on a dangerous, irritating mission.

I made me take a look at women in Trek, and how they relate to the issue of fighting.

Not their ability to fight, but what is their attitude, feminine or hard, gritty or soft.

Do they exaggerate, or does it make sense?

Remember 7 of 9 from the Voyager episode where she is kidnapped and put in a fighting ring, and she fights like Xena or a martial arts expert?

And it looked...normal........
 
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Well, Trek has always been about equality... except when it isn't, at least. But I will concur that sometimes they go out of their way to establish that equality, and it comes off as a bit too forced.

In other news, I'll be posting the review for "Melora" within a few hours!
 
I got that impression from Kira in the last few episodes of the 7th season...
I'll have to keep an eye out for that, but I think I know what you mean.
Kira beat the snot out of Damar when he placed a hand on Ziyal to bring her back.

In the last few episodes of the 7th season, she seems even more gruff and tough. She beats up the Legate who who puts a hand on her.

She seems, well, gruff towards Garak in simple conversations. It was like her character exploded into this tough, somewhat gritty veteran type.

Maybe I got that impression because I saw her originally as a softer, peaceable woman who balanced it with her resistance training.


Now, I know, it comes with the territory, she's a resistance fighter, on a dangerous, irritating mission.

I made me take a look at women in Trek, and how they relate to the issue of fighting.

Not their ability to fight, but what is their attitude, feminine or hard, gritty or soft.

Do they exaggerate, or does it make sense?

I am confused here - are you aren't bothered by the physical aspects and the realism of combat scenes for women in Trek - or with their attitude?

Now if you were referring to just the physical strength, then I'd say you do have a point- not so much in Trek, as in TV and movies in general... there are too many females being shown to physically match or overpower bigger and stronger male opponents - which is especially unrealistic when they're as well trained...

But attitude? Do you really see that as unrealistic? There are PLENTY of women in real life who are are gruff and angry and tough... how many you'll see depends on the culture, social class, environment they belong to. You'll see more "ladylike" women if they are required by the society they live in to be coy, sweet, and so on, and suppress any anger and aggression they feel (at least in public and in 'polite society'). This is far less the case now than it was 200 years ago. Why in the world would you think that women in the 24th century would be burdened with traditional gender roles? :cardie: Not to mention alien women, who might have grown in a completely different culture where those old Earth gender roles would be completely... well, alien. I'm baffled as to why someone would expect an SF show to feature aliens acting as if they were brought up on early 20th century Earth.

As for Kira, she was far gruffer and more belligerent in season 1, especially early on. Which makes sense, since the Occupation had just been over and she had been fighting in the resistance since she was 12. She changed and mellowed somewhat throughout the seasons.

I have no idea which legate from season 7 you're referring to? And Kira was, by that time, willing to fight together in the Cardassian resistance alongside people she used to hate like Damar, which shows just much she had grown. She only became angry and aggressive as a result of constant taunting and insults by Rusot, a typical Cardassian bigot.

Remember 7 of 9 from the Voyager episode where she is kidnapped and put in a fighting ring, and she fights like Xena or a martial arts expert?

And it looked...normal........
I don't see how Seven's gender comes into this. We are supposed to think that, with her Borg implants, she is physically much stronger than Jeri Ryan, and much stronger than most humans for that matter (her strength was emphasized in episodes like "Someone Who Watch Over Me" where she broke a guy's arm while trying to dance with him). As for her attitude, what does that have to do with the attitude of women? Seven may have been physically a woman, her sex was female, but when it comes to gender (the psychological, social, cultural aspect), she hadn't been a woman for most of her life, she had been a Borg drone. She had only been thinking of herself as a woman for a couple of years, since she was freed from the Collective, and she was still unsure if she was a Human or a Borg. Of course her behavior and attitude was not "feminine", but not because she did or didn't fight.

(BTW I'm confused here: are you saying that a real "feminine" woman, with a "feminine" attitude, if she was thrown into the same situation, wouldn't have tried to fight :wtf: but would do... what? Scream and cry for help? Take the punches?)

The whole reason Seven was in the ring in the first place was because she was an ex-Borg. It was mentioned in the episode that her matches were going to be popular because people hated the Borg and wanted to see a Borg getting pummeled. I don't remember much about her fights except that she put up a fight, but got beaten up by The Rock as you'd expect. I remember that she had a trainer/martial arts teacher played by J.G. Hertzler tried to teach her to fight well. How well she could have learned in that amount of time could be questioned, but that has nothing to do with her gender or attitude.
 
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