I've ben watching Person Of Interest

[Gingerbread Demon]

And what a fantastic show it has been. Finished the last few episodes tonight of the very short season 5.

8/10

OK. I've had a bit of time to digest my thoughts on the final episodes and I have to say this. It was an excellent show. But some of the things that I ended up thinking during the course of the show, and sorry if this sounds like a huge ramble, I don't mean to ramble but I can get wordy. So sorry if this is a bit long.

The machine evolved over the course of the show from a mysterious thing we were introduced to over season 1 and 2 into a being and character of its own right. It for me was as much a character as Finch, Root, John, and the others. By the last season I grew to care for her and we see that she really did care for them too, and for the rest of us unlike her main rival. She had developed a “soul” for want of a better word and a moral centre to care for people. At least that's how I saw it.

Samaritan. Well I always knew the show would set up some kind of rival to the Machine, that much was a bit of a given. But yeah it was everything the Machine wasn't, it had a sense of arrogance and an agenda, and goals of its own. According to the show Arthur Claypool created Samaritan as the alternative to the Machine but he didn't encode it with the same sense of purpose that Harold did with his machine. This one seemed cold and demanding. I did like the idea of it having its own goals and an agenda it wanted to run, whether it had laid that out to Greer and all who were under it though we never seem to know fully. We see that it orders people around to do things. But it doesn't want to be known. It wants to run things from the shadows and not be known. I wonder if such a machine did exist and was as intelligent as portrayed on the show would it in reality also have its own goals, wants, or even needs in order to continue. Would it willingly serve us or turn the tables on us and make us its servants

Greer he seems to have this almost religious idolisation of his machine. In fact the moment they turn it on and it asks for orders he turns that around and says “how can we follow you?” instead which gave me chills. He just seemed way too willing to build this machine AI and then fall under its rule. Yeah I really did wonder about all that. But I do wonder now watching the show where did these AI's actually come from? Both seem almost identical in nature and both come into being around the same time. I really did wonder if maybe some other outside force was driving people to create them, and there was an idea I picked up from reading a lot of fan related websites about the show and such. One of these ideas was that these AI's have always existed and manipulated humans into doing their bidding, and I find that fascinating because how could they have existed in an age before large scale computer integration and microelectronics? Were they some kind of living energy that has just always been there and come to find humans and find them interesting playthings to use and play with. In fact the more I think about that idea the more I really like it, as it makes them a force of nature or evolution, they're not good or bad, or evil, they just ARE, they just exist.

Yeah well that's about all I have to say on this...

 

[Christopher]

But I do wonder now watching the show where did these AI's actually come from? Both seem almost identical in nature and both come into being around the same time.

That's not really surprising. It's quite common in the history of science and invention for the same breakthrough to be made by two or more independent groups at around the same time. That's because science and invention build on what came before. Once certain discoveries have been made, once certain theoretical foundations have been laid, then the next step becomes inevitable. Einstein built his Theory of Relativity on prior work like the Michelson-Morley experiment and Reimann's geometry of curved surfaces. The ingredients were in place and he was the first one to figure out how to put them together, how to answer the questions that were already being asked. But if he hadn't been there, someone else would've figured it out soon enough, because the necessary foundations for the breakthrough had already been laid.

So it follows that once the technological and theoretical foundations for artificial superintelligence had been laid, then it would inevitably be invented, and could be invented independently by different groups. No, it hadn't "always been there" -- no idea where that came from -- but we'd reached a point where all the necessary conditions were in place for its emergence, and that would change everything. Indeed, that was kind of a theme in the later seasons -- that the Singularity and the emergence of ASI were impossible to prevent. Even if the Machine and Samaritan had both been destroyed, it would have only been a matter of time before the next ASI was created, and the next, and the next. So the defining struggle in the final season or two was not about whether an all-seeing, all-controlling ASI would exist or not, but rather about whether the ASI "god" that we ended up with would respect human freedom and choice or not. As long as the Machine got there first, she could keep more tyrannical ASIs like Samaritan from taking control.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I really enjoyed this show. It wasn't perfect, but it was always entertaining and thought-provoking.

I loved the evolving cast. All of the characters were interesting and engaging.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Probably my third favorite series after West Wing and Buffy.

And for my money, "If-Then-Else" is the most original bit of TV writing of the last 30 years.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

That's not really surprising. It's quite common in the history of science and invention for the same breakthrough to be made by two or more independent groups at around the same time. That's because science and invention build on what came before. Once certain discoveries have been made, once certain theoretical foundations have been laid, then the next step becomes inevitable. Einstein built his Theory of Relativity on prior work like the Michelson-Morley experiment and Reimann's geometry of curved surfaces. The ingredients were in place and he was the first one to figure out how to put them together, how to answer the questions that were already being asked. But if he hadn't been there, someone else would've figured it out soon enough, because the necessary foundations for the breakthrough had already been laid.

So it follows that once the technological and theoretical foundations for artificial superintelligence had been laid, then it would inevitably be invented, and could be invented independently by different groups. No, it hadn't "always been there" -- no idea where that came from -- but we'd reached a point where all the necessary conditions were in place for its emergence, and that would change everything. Indeed, that was kind of a theme in the later seasons -- that the Singularity and the emergence of ASI were impossible to prevent. Even if the Machine and Samaritan had both been destroyed, it would have only been a matter of time before the next ASI was created, and the next, and the next. So the defining struggle in the final season or two was not about whether an all-seeing, all-controlling ASI would exist or not, but rather about whether the ASI "god" that we ended up with would respect human freedom and choice or not. As long as the Machine got there first, she could keep more tyrannical ASIs like Samaritan from taking control.

No I don't subscribe to the "they were always there" idea but I just find that idea intriguing and a fun thing to explore. So what would that make them, some disembodied intelligence that just exists? Then you have to ask "where did they come from?" and I just find that stuff fascinating.

 

[bigdaddy]

I just started the show this week so I won't be reading anything here. No wonder why this show didn't last on CBS, it's too good for them.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I just started the show this week so I won't be reading anything here. No wonder why this show didn't last on CBS, it's too good for them.

Season 5 should have been a full season with 22 episodes that would have been perfect to tie all the loose ends but yeah it is what it is and we were lucky we as fans got 13 episodes.

 

[Christopher]

No wonder why this show didn't last on CBS, it's too good for them.

On the contrary, it lasted amazingly long. It's one of only three science fiction series in the history of CBS that has made it to five seasons, the other two being The Twilight Zone from 1959-64 (156 episodes) and The Incredible Hulk from 1978-82 (82 episodes). At five seasons and 103 episodes, Person of Interest is CBS's longest-running SF show in the past 50 years. The only CBS genre series that ever ran longer than five years was a fantasy, Touched by an Angel, which ran nine years.

Although, granted, PoI pulled off this feat largely by downplaying its SF elements for the first 2-3 seasons. I've encountered a number of people who were surprised to hear it characterized as a science fiction show, because they thought it was just another typical CBS crime procedural.

Five years is actually a very successful run for any show on any network. Most shows make it only 1-3 years, if that. But we forget most of the short-lived shows that got cancelled before they left an impression, so that creates the mistaken perception that long-lived shows are the rule instead of the exception.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The Crossing is episode 54. It almost perfectly bisects the show into two distinct parts or halves. It's, you know, binary.

So I suppose five more episodes might have been okay.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The Crossing is episode 54. It almost perfectly bisects the show into two distinct parts or halves. It's, you know, binary.

So I suppose five more episodes might have been okay.

Greer's portrayal changed from the start from wanting to control The Machine to becoming an ASI worshipper. I also found the battle with Mini Machine and Mini Samaritan in the Faraday cage a bit silly because the Machine kept losing yet its larger self had done so much with so little resources. It should have won more of those battles.

 

[Christopher]

Greer's portrayal changed from the start from wanting to control The Machine to becoming an ASI worshipper.

I'm not so sure. I think it's more that the other characters assumed his goal was to be the one in control, but it turned out that they'd misunderstood him.

I also found the battle with Mini Machine and Mini Samaritan in the Faraday cage a bit silly because the Machine kept losing yet its larger self had done so much with so little resources. It should have won more of those battles.

I believe the idea is that they were sped-up simulations of the equivalent of years' worth of conflict in the real world, predicting the ultimate outcome of their confrontation -- much like the Machine in "If-Then-Else" simulated multiple outcomes to the scenario in a matter of seconds. Or like how chess experts can predict in advance that they're going to lose a game and thus resign without needing to actually play it out. So it's not that the emulation of Samaritan won every individual battle -- it's that it ultimately won the war in each separate "universe" that was simulated. Within each individual simulation, the Machine undoubtedly held her own for a fair amount of virtual time, but she was unable to find a strategy that would let her prevail in the end.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I guess.... I suppose I had so many expectations of what kind of final battle they would have and what the two AI machines would do that when it happened I felt a bit let down. I was hoping there would have been some scene of proper pwnage where Team Machine and their AI stood over the burning carcass of Samaritan.

 

[Christopher]

I was hoping there would have been some scene of proper pwnage where Team Machine and their AI stood over the burning carcass of Samaritan.

I think that would've been too easy an ending and wouldn't really have fit the tone of the show. And by that point, the conflict between the two ASIs had become so abstract that it was hard to visualize onscreen.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I think that would've been too easy an ending and wouldn't really have fit the tone of the show. And by that point, the conflict between the two ASIs had become so abstract that it was hard to visualize onscreen.

Yeah that is probably right.

Some fans I have read had ideas like John draining the coolant from Sam's processor because it was a superconductor chip, or clipping the pins after draining the coolant..

I mean that would have probably looked cool but it would have been too typical an ending. Thinking about what I said the way they ended things was the right way.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The ending is basically perfect.

 

[Gary7]

Great series. It should've gotten more love than it did. Michael Emerson portrayed Finch somewhat like a "modified Ben Linus," but I still thoroughly enjoyed his performance. Definitely made the show. I had trouble with the "divide"... where Linus and team were on the run. Rather dramatic change in feeling. For a while, I started to lose interest, but thankfully things eventually recovered, writing improved.

 

[Refuge]

This thread makes me want to catch up with this show again. It was so good and I had a massive crush on Jim Caviezel

 

[CorporalClegg]

Who doesn't? I mean, he's Jesus.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

This thread makes me want to catch up with this show again. It was so good and I had a massive crush on Jim Caviezel

You should......... I had a wee crush on Amy Acker

 

[Gary7]

You should......... I had a wee crush on Amy Acker

She is extremely captivating. I love her biting sarcasm on PoI.