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Its a tough watch

I find "The Battle" to be a pretty poorly written episode. There was a lot about it that didn't make sense, things I had to struggle to rationalize when I depicted the Battle of Maxia in The Buried Age. Like, how could the Stargazer crew not have known the ship had survived after they abandoned it?


I seem to recall Sliders was hit by some serious executive meddling, to the ultimate detriment of the show. There was a lot of good potential in the series but it wasn't always used to the best degree.

Yeah, you could tell it was being retooled season by season, and getting dumber with each retool. The first season stuck pretty closely to the core premise of alternate histories, worlds that differed from ours due to some event in the past happening differently. But season 2 started getting into weirder sci-fi and fantasy premises -- sorcerors, the astral plane, dinosaurs, psychics, time travel, etc. I figure the network pressured it to be more of a generic sci-fi show rather than sticking with its core premise.
 
I like both episodes, but I wish Bob Justman's original plan for the scenario in "Time Squared" (that the space vortex thing was created by Q, along with the alternate Picard and shuttle) had been followed through. Bob had wanted Q to reveal this on the shuttle in "Q Who?" as a test of humanity, but Gene nixed establishing the connection. I feel like those details help make "Time Squared" work better since otherwise there are a number of elements that don't make as much sense as a standalone episode.

I likewise wish that the original concepts for "Justice" had been used to some degree over the final, much sillier version we got.

I seem to recall Sliders was hit by some serious executive meddling, to the ultimate detriment of the show. There was a lot of good potential in the series but it wasn't always used to the best degree.

I actually did a theory about connecting Q with the events in "Time Squared" a few years ago:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the...for-the-final-test-in-all-good-things.297382/
 
Yeah, you could tell it was being retooled season by season, and getting dumber with each retool. The first season stuck pretty closely to the core premise of alternate histories, worlds that differed from ours due to some event in the past happening differently. But season 2 started getting into weirder sci-fi and fantasy premises -- sorcerors, the astral plane, dinosaurs, psychics, time travel, etc. I figure the network pressured it to be more of a generic sci-fi show rather than sticking with its core premise.

I mean I'm not saying that the retools of Sliders worked. They didn't. But I think there were some problems with the show from the get go.
I don't know how novel and interesting the idea of going to many alternate worlds might had been at the time, but once they had done the most interesting "what ifs" and after a couple seasons, I can imagine the original premise of "just" sliding through worlds would have become stale. The very premise of the series also meant it was difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to introduce ongoing story-arks or recurring characters beyond the group of world hoppers.
And yes, the ongoing story arcs they eventually tried to introduce stank to high heaven (what was that about some multi-versial war against....was it Neanderthals?) , but I reckon something like that would have been necessary to keep the show interesting, particularly because (in my opinion) the initial characters and their internal relationships weren't.

Compare it with Marvel's Exiles which also was about travelling between alternate Earths, but at least had a, theoretical, over-arching storyline to give it form and reason.
 
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I don't know how novel and interesting the idea of going to many alternate worlds might had been at the time, but once they had done the most interesting "what ifs" and after a couple seasons, I can imagine the original premise of "just" sliding through worlds would have become stale.

It wasn't a couple of seasons. It was at the start of season 2 -- and season 1 was only 10 episodes. That wasn't remotely enough time for the format to be explored to its full potential, let alone run out of juice.

And I don't buy the idea that a show's core premise and worldbuilding have to be changed to keep it from getting "stale." How many murder mystery shows or police procedurals or courtroom dramas have run for hundreds of episodes with the exact same format? Perry Mason didn't have to start defending vampires and werewolves to hold an audience. The CSI team didn't have to develop psychic powers or time-travel. Why should science fiction be held to a different standard than mainstream programming? Why shouldn't it be allowed the same integrity in its premises?

If anything, what happened to Sliders, M.A.N.T.I.S., SeaQuest DSV, and other such shows was the reverse of that. They would come along with their own distinct approaches to speculative fiction, their own identities, but the network execs didn't understand the diversity that science fiction is capable of and insisted on forcing all those shows to conform to a single preconceived, narrow-minded notion of sci-fi as something weird and fanciful and absurd. So it made them less fresh by making them generic. The same thing happened with Irwin Allen shows in the '60s. You had shows with clear, distinctive concepts like The Time Tunnel and Lost in Space and Land of the Giants, each telling their own distinct stories about their own distinct premises and situations, but over time they all started to tell the same kinds of stories about aliens and time travel and whatever random weirdness, so they lost their distinct character.


The very premise of the series also meant it was difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to introduce ongoing story-arks or recurring characters beyond the group of world hoppers.

Oh, they had a number of recurring characters, in the sense that they kept meeting different doppelgangers of the same people. And story arcs were not a requirement back then. The norm was to have episodic plots with character-development arcs.



And yes, the ongoing story arcs they eventually tried to introduce stank to high heaven (what was that about some multi-versial war against....was it Neanderthals?)

Kromaggs, derived from Cro-Magnon -- which didn't really make sense, since Cro-Magnons were modern humans, i.e. our own species. However, there were two different takes on the Kromaggs. There was the single episode in season 2 that wasn't very good and wasn't followed up on, and then there was their return in the much better-written seasons 4 and 5, with a completely new approach to the species and a new makeup design, making them less like monsters and more like the show's version of Klingons.
 
It wasn't a couple of seasons. It was at the start of season 2 -- and season 1 was only 10 episodes. That wasn't remotely enough time for the format to be explored to its full potential, let alone run out of juice.
Honestly I don't think you'd need more than 12 episodes for the novelty to wear of and that premise to grow stale.

And I don't buy the idea that a show's core premise and worldbuilding have to be changed to keep it from getting "stale." How many murder mystery shows or police procedurals or courtroom dramas have run for hundreds of episodes with the exact same format? Perry Mason didn't have to start defending vampires and werewolves to hold an audience. The CSI team didn't have to develop psychic powers or time-travel. Why should science fiction be held to a different standard than mainstream programming? Why shouldn't it be allowed the same integrity in its premises?
Well..
First of all, in case you haven't noticed, I'm the person who constantly rages against episodes like "A Fistful of Datas" or subplots like Janeways' Turn of Screw/Jane Eyre mashup (and even against the Oh SO Beloved "Far Beyond the Stars") pastiche because I think SciFi should be allowed its premise without any "breaks from the usual setting" or genre shifts. (as in I think DS9 should have done an episode about racism within the DS9 setting)

Second of all: Well there's a reason I don't watch crime/police procedurals. In fact, in my opinion "they fight crime" is the laziest premise there is. In fact including vampires, werewolves, psychic powers and such would be the only way to make me watch them.

And Third: From what i understand a lot of people watch crime/police procedurals because they enjoy the character, and again the original four characters in sliders were boring and they didn't really improve much from what I remember.

And finally...if you look at most SciFi and/or Fantasy/Genre shows Star Trek, BSG, Doctor Who, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Xena and the Adventures of Hercules, the various Star Wars shows, Avatar: the Legend of Aang, Sapphire and Steel, Ocean Girl, Space Cases, even Charmed as clueless as it was (or is in the case of the reboot) they all build a strong setting, mythology and a clear sense what the characters are actively doing. What do you have in the original concept for Sliders? Four people who blunder from one world to the next without agency in where they go, react to whatever problems they encounter (and being mistaken for their counter-parts)and, basically just stay alive with their only goal (going home) being unobtainable, because it would end the series. Where are we Gilligan's Island? And who cares what they do in each of the endless worlds they visit, none of it matters because at the end they slide into the next world.
That's why I mentioned Exiles, because there at least was an active reason why the characters were visiting alternate worlds.

If anything, what happened to Sliders, M.A.N.T.I.S., SeaQuest DSV, and other such shows was the reverse of that.
I have no idea what MANTIS and SeaQuest DSV are, sorry, I'm not American and not all American media is always easily available to the rest of the world. I'm sure those shows aired in the countries I lived in at some point, but never at a point where I would have seen them.
I was strictly talking about Sliders and the problems I had with it when i saw it.

Oh, they had a number of recurring characters, in the sense that they kept meeting different doppelgangers of the same people. And story arcs were not a requirement back then. The norm was to have episodic plots with character-development arcs.
But in comparison to proper recurring characters, these dopplegangers couldn't create long-lasting relationships and histories with the main characters, since (barring the dopplegangers meeting alternate versions of the main characters, which I'm sure happened) for them it was always the first time they met the MCs. So in that way their usage was limited and they really weren't recurring characters, just dopplegangers.
As to arcs not being necessary...maybe not always, but even in TNG we knew the Borg were out there, the Romulans, the Klingons etc. And we knew they might pop out at any time, or Q, Lwaxana etc. Same with Doctor Who and the Daleks/Master/Cybermen.
Sliders, in its "unaltered" form that 100% stuck to its origins premise had.....nothing.

Kromaggs, derived from Cro-Magnon -- which didn't really make sense, since Cro-Magnons were modern humans, i.e. our own species. However, there were two different takes on the Kromaggs. There was the single episode in season 2 that wasn't very good and wasn't followed up on, and then there was their return in the much better-written seasons 4 and 5, with a completely new approach to the species and a new makeup design, making them less like monsters and more like the show's version of Klingons.

So it's even stupider than I remember. But well, again, as stupid as the whole thing was, at least it gave the show some direction instead of just endlessly falling through the worlds without end with no obtainable goal beyond basic survival.
 
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Honestly I don't think you'd need more than 12 episodes for the novelty to wear of and that premise to grow stale.

I find that a very closed-minded attitude, given that alternate history has been a very successful genre of science fiction literature for decades. It's also unfair to judge how long it could've lasted when the show wasn't even given a fair chance to try.


Second of all: Well there's a reason I don't watch crime/police procedurals. In fact, in my opinion "they fight crime" is the laziest premise there is. In fact including vampires, werewolves, psychic powers and such would be the only way to make me watch them.

I'm not talking about whether procedurals are good or not. I'm objecting to the societal double standard that insists on ghettoizing mass-media science fiction and assuming it has to follow a different set of rules than the ones that apply to other genres. Fortunately today's TV executives have largely outgrown that prejudice, but we're talking about an era when those ignorant stereotypes were very much in place and led to a lot of potentially good, distinctive shows being homogenized and dumbed down to follow stock formulas.

So it's not about Sliders alone or what any one viewer thought of it. It was a systemic problem that affected a lot of shows.
 
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As an aside, I feel like I'm the only one who hates Conspiracy. I liked the promise of intrigue, the volcano scene... but then it turns into... well, I won't say what to not spoil it for the OP.
I just wish it would've been more intrigue, less "horror/gore".

That's literally one scene in the entire episode and while I do agree that it's a little out of place, it's also awesome.

To the OP, do not listen to the bad advice suggesting you skip episodes. It's worth it to see them all. Don't let others make the decision for you. Anyone telling you to skip an episode is imposing their opinion on your decision. You have no idea if you'll like it until you watch it and you may be surprised.
 
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The latter. I can't imagine any one playing The Comic that could outdo Spiner and Goldberg's double act as they had both great witticisms, reacting to The Comic, plus the end of story "moral of the story" (which is actually quite good, but a half-minute scene can't make up for the proceeding 42 minute episode...)
Thanks for the clarification. Having co-incidentally just watched it, I'm inclined to agree. The Comic, IMHO was written to be a "bad comic," or at least not a funny one. Granted, my sense of humour is certainly atypical, but that was my take on how the comic was written.

dJE
 
I struggled my way through season 1 doing a rewatch and dropped it for a long, long while. Started again from the weekend and picked my favourites from season 1 and watching most of season 2 the same way. I will agree with most others here in that season 3 onwards is where the show really does pick up and it's good after that.
 
Even if it's only to determine that you won't watch it again. There are plenty of episodes that a lot of people seem to have a problem with that I enjoy or at least can watch without turning it off.

Exactly! Don't let others make your decisions for you.
 
Well, I've gone through the same thing. Season 1 is pretty terrible. I recently re-watched season 1 in order to see if I could change my mind but I just couldn't. A lot of embarassing episodes, it was a chore to get through. Honestly, I couldn't find more than 2 episodes that I liked ("11001001" is a good one). I think the continuity stuff is a bit overstated, other than "Encounter At Farpoint", maybe "Skin of Evil" and "Datalore", you don't need to watch any of the season 1 episodes. My tip is to watch normally and just skip an episode if you're not liking it. After Season 3 the show transforms into a completly different thing.
 
Thank you, this response put a big smile on my face. I will definatley go and check out the ones you sugested.
 
Every time one of these threads pops up, just for a couple of seconds, it transports me back to relive the anticipation of seeing the first new TV Trek since the 70s. :cool:
 
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