It seems there is a reason for the visual reboot and the producers aren't being honest about it.

[Mudd]

Instead, they used a 42-year-old design ... from the reject pile!

Good point.

There was nothing inevitable about the way this pile of inadequacy looks. The current Trek movies don't look like this - they look pretty stunning. The most generic of science fiction movies these days sport more imaginative design than STD.

 

[lawman]

If it is anything like historical advisers, I'm skeptical at their actual usefulness...

Amusing clip. There is, of course, no guarantee that filmmakers will pay any attention to a historical (or scientific, or continuity) advisor, nor correct any mistakes that are pointed out, but there's at least the possibility that they might. (The history of what did and didn't get changed in TOS in response to the consultants' comments is interesting in that regard.) If you don't have an advisor at all, though, you have a 100% guarantee that any mistakes will not be corrected.

The joyous bits feel fleeting, and the body horror is annoying, distracting and unnecessary. I don't see it as grimdark, but I certainly don't feel that it is as optimistic as much of other Trek.

Body horror? In TWOK?? What are you thinking of? The few seconds with the Ceti Eels and the ears? (What else is there?) I'm a notoriously squeamish person, and that never bothered me, even when I was a kid.

 

[fireproof78]

Amusing clip. There is, of course, no guarantee that filmmakers will pay any attention to a historical (or scientific, or continuity) advisor, nor correct any mistakes that are pointed out, but there's at least the possibility that they might. (The history of what did and didn't get changed in TOS in response to the consultants' comments is interesting in that regard.) If you don't have an advisor at all, though, you have a 100% guarantee that any mistakes will not be corrected.


Body horror? In TWOK?? What are you thinking of? The few seconds with the Ceti Eels and the ears? (What else is there?) I'm a notoriously squeamish person, and that never bothered me, even when I was a kid.

Ceti eel is more than enough for me.

Also, I guess not body horror as jump scare with the Regula 1 crew being effectively tortured and slaughtered.

 

[INACTIVERedDwarf]

Generally those who have a "fanatical love" for a property are not the ones you want writing it because you just end up with small universe syndrome and self referential fanwank. You need people with a willingness to take risks, do new things and expand what exists, not fan film makers with a budget. If anything, Discovery needs a lot less Trek fanaticism in the writers' room.

Yeah, depends if they also have any skill; not every nerd thinks self-referential fanwank is good writing.

Feige has enough skill to let Joss or Gunn or the Russos make radically different movies, but remain Marvel at heart, for example.

 

[cooleddie74]

Good point.

There was nothing inevitable about the way this pile of inadequacy looks. The current Trek movies don't look like this - they look pretty stunning. The most generic of science fiction movies these days sport more imaginative design than STD.

I will say this. I like the DSC Enterprise for the most part but the Kelvin timeline starships are better looking than most of the Prime timeline ones in the new series. Only the Enterprise and the Shepard-class starships are remotely as cool or impressive as, say, most of the ships that warped to Vulcan in the 2009 film.

 

[Relayer1]

I will say this. I like the DSC Enterprise for the most part but the Kelvin timeline starships are better looking than most of the Prime timeline ones in the new series. Only the Enterprise and the Shepard-class starships are remotely as cool or impressive as, say, most of the ships that warped to Vulcan in the 2009 film.

Hmmm...no. Not for me at least.

I've liked all of the Starfleet chips in Discovery way more than anything they've had in the Kelvin movies.

 

[INACTIVERedDwarf]

So clean, 23rd century, Starfleet-like, and utilitarian.

This fan one is nice, the non-streamlined look gives it an industrial feel.

 

[cooleddie74]

That is one good-looking starship.

 

[CaptainMurdock]

So clean, 23rd century, Starfleet-like, and utilitarian.

This fan one is nice, the non-streamlined look gives it an industrial feel.

More ships like this for Season 2 please.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

IIRC you're a big fan of ENT Season 3. While there were a lot of things I didn't like about that arc, one thing I did like was despite it being serialized, they found a way to work in different genres, including straight up western (North Star) and horror (Impulse). It shows that you can have serialization which moves along a greater plot and yet still have the episodes differ in terms of things like tone, themes, and execution.

"Impulse" is a very solid example of a stand alone episode while at the same time still being integral to the Xindi arc. I can't say the same about "North Star", which felt like a leftover from the aimless era of the first two seasons.

Having just revisited the third season, it's amazing to see how it holds up for the most part. It's not perfect, it could have worked better as a shorter season. I'm starting to be of the mind that it is actually ENT's best season overall.

 

[Rahul]

IIRC you're a big fan of ENT Season 3. While there were a lot of things I didn't like about that arc, one thing I did like was despite it being serialized, they found a way to work in different genres, including straight up western (North Star) and horror (Impulse). It shows that you can have serialization which moves along a greater plot and yet still have the episodes differ in terms of things like tone, themes, and execution.

"Impulse" is a very solid example of a stand alone episode while at the same time still being integral to the Xindi arc. I can't say the same about "North Star", which felt like a leftover from the aimless era of the first two seasons.

Having just revisited the third season, it's amazing to see how it holds up for the most part. It's not perfect, it could have worked better as a shorter season. I'm starting to be of the mind that it is actually ENT's best season overall.

Indeed. ENT season 3 wasn't perfect by any means, and there are certainly other seasons of Star Trek that I like more - mostly from TOS and TNG.

But IMO season 3 of ENT is a perfect blueprint in how to make a modern-day Star Trek show: With both serialized and anthology elements.

It's not so much that I think the Xindi arc itself was perfect. But the way it was told is IMO the only way Star Trek can thrive on modern day television: Have a strong main arc, especially in the beginning and large swaths at the end of the season (ENT needed 3+ episode that dealed with the finale, compare that to DIS that tried to wrap up all the plot arcs in one single episode, and failed horribly with the finale) and strong character arcs for every main character - but in the middle have "filler" episodes that move the main plot only incrementally along, but tell their own, unique and vastly different stories as a way to present the classic "anthology series with a fixed set of characters"-angle of the show.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Plus to be fair, filler was also done to literally fill out the number of required episodes (24 ep), via bottle shows like "Doctor's Orders". that's only about a character running back and forth darkened corridors, This is why I think ENT's third season could have benefitted more from a shorter episode run.

DIS having only 15 episodes could have made for a better tighter serialized arc, but that got bungled balancing between the vital storyline progressive episodes and stand alone episodes. This could all be due to the shifting writers staff starting with Fuller's exit. I hope now with all that drama left behind and the current show runners working on S2 from the start that we'll have a less schizophrenic season.

 

[Mudd]

I love the fact that attempts to tell a story in an hour now are called "filler."

 

[eschaton]

I love the fact that attempts to tell a story in an hour now are called "filler."

Well, due to how hard it was for the writing team to come up with that many episodes per year, there were always a few stinkers which they admitted were thrown together at the last minute. It's exactly like how bands often would put on tracks they didn't like as much at the end of album production, rather than just releasing an EP of only the stronger songs.

 

[cultcross]

I love the fact that attempts to tell a story in an hour now are called "filler."

No, episodes designed to fill long seasons' airtime with dubious plots are "filler", or as I prefer, album tracks. Being a standalone episode doesn't make it filler, but Trek has some examples that are so "meh" it's hard to imagine how they ever got approved.

 

[eschaton]

No, episodes designed to fill long seasons' airtime with dubious plots are "filler", or as I prefer, album tracks. Being a standalone episode doesn't make it filler, but Trek has some examples that are so "meh" it's hard to imagine how they ever got approved.

And of course there's the "bottle episode" as well. Although bottle episodes are more filler in terms of the budget than the writing team. Cut down on costs by having no guest stars, only using standing sets, etc.

 

[Tuskin38]

Most of Discovery reused the same sets.

 

[eschaton]

Most of Discovery reused the same sets.

Yeah, I was going to say that by some standards (particularly that only three episodes had any location shooting) most of Discovery counted as "bottle episodes." I think the money that went into things like CGI would mean they didn't count however.

 

[apepa]

I think it's nonsense. For some reason, neither Paramount nor CBS is willing to come out and say "Yes, this is a reboot, we're doing a reboot.".

 

[Mudd]

No, episodes designed to fill long seasons' airtime with dubious plots are "filler", or as I prefer, album tracks. Being a standalone episode doesn't make it filler, but Trek has some examples that are so "meh" it's hard to imagine how they ever got approved.

The same way similar episodes in any series get approved. A long-running series with no duds is the exception - and a lot of it's in the eye of the beholder.

It's pretty rare that producers knowingly move forward with bad stuff - at least on Trek. I was personally witness to the TNG folks moving Heaven and Earth on one occasion to buy themselves an extra week and a half to work on a troublesome script...and the show that resulted seems to have been a success as a result. It's usually in retrospect that you get the shrugging and the "you have to shoot the script you have" apologias.