Issues with Voyager

[jimbtnp2]

# 1 - Great premise - horrible execution

# 2 - The Holowreck

# 3 - The worst cast ever assembled for a TV show

# 4 - TECHNOBABBLE Everywhere all the time

# 5 - Lameway

# 6 - Naiome Wildman - WHYYYYYYY after TNG would you take the worst aspect and trake it up a notch!

# 7 - Borg neutering

This show was an abomination

GR most be rolling over in his orbit

 

[Geck]

I have to agree with a lot of the list (especially #1, #4 and #7), but I definitely can't agree with the comment about it being the worst cast....it's probably the best cast modern Trek has. With the exception of Garrett Wang (and even he had some good eps), all of the actors are extremely talented and managed to turn some otherwise mediocre episodes into far better pieces than they deserved to be.

 

[Kegek]

# 1 - Great premise - horrible execution

Voyager did tend to ignore a lot of the possibilites or consequences of its premise. But as unfaithful as it was to the idea behind the premise it wasn't that bad of a show. I'd be mixed on this one.

# 2 - The Holowreck

... meaning what? If you mean Holodeck Malfunctions episodes, then just say so. No argument there, as a plot device that was far overused on the show. It irked me in particular in "Worst Case Scenario", which was shaping up to a pretty interesting episode right up until it became a malfunction episode.

But if it's just against the holodeck in general, I'd have to disagree. It's a cool idea and Voyager did show some interesting locales in its holodeck over the years, just as TNG had done. The show was too reliant on the holodeck, granted, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. I rather liked "Real Life", as an example of a non-malfunction holodeck episode, but then I am quite partial to the Doctor.

# 3 - The worst cast ever assembled for a TV show

Poppycock. There have been far worse casts out there. I think VOY's cast was overall quite good; there were some weak ones but Robert Picardo was exceptional. Tim Russ and Jeri Ryan were also very good. The likeability of VOY's cast was one of the main reasons I kept watching the show, and one of its greatest strengths.

# 4 - TECHNOBABBLE Everywhere all the time

Conceded. This was a major flaw of the show.

# 5 - Lameway

I had my problems with Janeway was well. Care to elaborate?

# 6 - Naiome Wildman - WHYYYYYYY after TNG would you take the worst aspect and trake it up a notch!

Naomi wasn't a genius wunderkid, last I checked. If you just mean having a kid on the show, while many sci-fi series have had irritating children characters I don't think it's an innately bad idea. I thought Naomi in general was okay. Nothing exceptional but she never greatly annoyed me either. But then I liked those episodes with Flotter.

# 7 - Borg neutering

Also conceded.

 

[kimc]

I'm assuming you came by to discuss and not just to troll:

# 1 - Great premise - horrible execution

It's a shame the network execs chickened out of folowing the original premise but "horrible execution" is a bit extreme, imo.

# # 2 - The Holowreck

I personally believe the holodeck was overused but then I believe that about every Trek series it's a part of. I also have a hard time buying the fact they were on rations while the holodeck could run 24/7.

As to what you meant though more detail is needed...

# 3 - The worst cast ever assembled for a TV show

The cast was great and made the most of the material they were given. You'd have a hard time proving othewise around here.

# # 4 - TECHNOBABBLE Everywhere all the time

47!

# 5 - Lameway

A funny name when reading Sev Trek. Not so funny anywhere else though.

# 6 - Naiome Wildman - WHYYYYYYY after TNG would you take the worst aspect and trake it up a notch!

Shut up Wesley!

Seriously, I agree Naomi was overused.

# 7 - Borg neutering

Way TOO miuch borg imo.

This show was an abomination

GR most be rolling over in his orbit

Oh the drama! Anything more concrete than that?

 

[Lynx]

# 1 - Great premise - horrible execution

# 2 - The Holowreck

# 3 - The worst cast ever assembled for a TV show

# 4 - TECHNOBABBLE Everywhere all the time

# 5 - Lameway

# 6 - Naiome Wildman - WHYYYYYYY after TNG would you take the worst aspect and trake it up a notch!

# 7 - Borg neutering

This show was an abomination

GR most be rolling over in his orbit

1. Ther premise was great. The execution could have been better, there were some not-so-good things here and there but still a watchable show.

2.Holodeck episodes. Not worse than TNG. OK, we could have managed without "FairHaven" and "Spirit Folks".

3. Voyager had the BEST cast of all Trek series. The only complaint have is that not all of the excellent actors and great characters were used to their full potential.

4. OK, a lot of technobabble but still not that much worse than other Trek series.

5. Janeway is a great captain, one of the best in Star Trek.

6. I can agree on Naomi. She was the token "child in an adventure series" character which we could have lived without. She was best in season 2 when she actually had some purpose.

7. Here I agree.

 

[smeos]

1. Horrible is an overstatement. I prefer to think that it never lived up to what it could have been.

2. Holodeck was overused, but every Trek series has been guilty of using the malfunction as a plot device. Some are done well (Our Man Bashir) and some are just awful (pretty much all the others).

3. Not the worst, but not the best, either. All of the series (except, IMO, DS9) had at least one or two weak characters.

4. No argument here.

5. I'll admit that Janeway isn't my favorite captain (actually, she's probably my least, at least in modern Trek).

6. Yeah, I hate kids. The Borg kids were worse though.

7. Again, no argument. Voyager took the best enemy in perhaps all of television and turned them into pussies.

Now excuse me while I go over to the DS9 thread to rip you a new one.

 

[DanCPA]

TighsEye will now give you his response... brace yourself...

# 1 - Great premise - horrible execution

Not horrible execution... The series was made so that you could watch one episode without having watched the last 10. While I would have liked some mention of repairs...

# 2 - The Holowreck

See, that one makes no sense to me... Think about it, if you were stranded on a little ship with a bunch of strangers far away from home... wouldn't you want to spend as much time as you could in fantasy camp... Visiting "home"

# 3 - The worst cast ever assembled for a TV show

Not true... We saw what Chakotay was capable of in the early seasons. Beltran stopped giving his all to the series when he saw that he was being shafted time and again in teh stories.
Tom Paris was another fine character, played wonderfully by Robbie
Tuvok was a great Vulcan character... altho I would have liked to have seen a little more "wisdom" and "fatherly role" out of his role with other young characters
Roxann Biggs did a great job with Torres.
Jenny Lien showed a young and inquisitive Kes.

The actors seem to do a great job... If you don't like some of the stories, that's your right... but with the exception of Garret MonoTone Wang, I thought they all did a fine job

# 4 - TECHNOBABBLE Everywhere all the time

This is a staple of all Trek. And you can't live without it... It's hard to show the ship in real peril when you've already created something in a previous Trek that could solve the problem in 10 seconds. Fans would be bitching about that

# 5 - Lameway

While her character did go a little too far from time to time, my only problem is that Chakotay didn't reign her in better. Believe it or not, I found Janeway's actions in Equinox to be VERY believable... and slightly hypocritical... which made them all the more believable!

# 6 - Naiome Wildman - WHYYYYYYY after TNG would you take the worst aspect and trake it up a notch!

I don't see this... Naomi wasn't a wonder-kid! She never saved the day. If anything, the idea of the crew starting families and making babies should have been explored further. Think of it... 140 people on a small little ship for 7 years, and the only pregnancy is between the chief engineer and the helmsman? There should have had a bunch of kids (not on screen all the time obviously)

# 7 - Borg neutering

I would have liked for Voyager to have traveled along the edge of borg space... occasionally coming across a borg vessel, but with the knowledge that the collective didn't care to assimilate 1 starfleet ship

This show was an abomination

While not the best Trek, I doubt it's that bad

GR most be rolling over in his orbit

Hmm... Can he?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

# 1 - Great premise - horrible execution

It's interesting that this keeps coming up time and again in conversations about the great losses of what Voyager could have been. Personally, I agree with it. But, there were some moments when they actually used the premise in a fantastic way. Year of Hell comes immediately to mind as one ex maple. I think another good one is Workforce. It's been a long time since I've pulled out my Voyager handbook, so I'm fuzzy on episode titles, but I know they are in there... the diamonds in the pile of crystals.

# 2 - The Holowreck

I would like to point out that TNG did this way before Voyager. Since the holodeck was first introduced, it has been malfunctioning. In fact, the very first episode with a holodeck in it was about a malfunction. I'm not sure that Voyager can solely be blamed for that awful legacy.

# 3 - The worst cast ever assembled for a TV show

There's no way to debate this well. I will say this, however... each cast had its gems and its coal. I think Voyager was no different, and good casting and well liked actors are really up to the individual tastes of the people who watch the show.

# 4 - TECHNOBABBLE Everywhere all the time

There was a lot of it, wasn't there? I wonder if Geordi or Cheif O'Brien would have had trouble understanding B'Elanna and Janeway?

# 5 - Lameway

See #3

# 6 - Naiome Wildman - WHYYYYYYY after TNG would you take the worst aspect and trake it up a notch!

Naomi was a plot device to help develop Seven's humanity more. Frankly, I don't think we would have seen her at all after her birth (which, in itself was great way of emphasizing the premise of the show) if Seven had not come to be.

# 7 - Borg neutering

I would like to add the word continued in front of that because I think that began when we discovered the Borg had a Queen and they could give Data human skin. Humanizing the Borg started in the movies. Voyager just continued it. I'm not saying they should have. I'm just saying they didn't start it.

 

[Unicron]

I always wondered what happened to Naomi's mom. Once the character started being written around Seven, she just kind of vanished and was rarely even referenced. Doesn't she watch her kid?

 

[DanCPA]

I always wondered what happened to Naomi's mom.

Maybe she had a job to do, and since Voyager seems like a safe place, why not let her go from place to place all by herself... She isn't a little baby

 

[Unicron]

Yeah, but they could still have made more use of the character and the actress.

 

[JNG]

I'm assuming you came by to discuss and not just to troll

You must have great faith in mankind to have made such an assumption...talking points like "Lameway" suggest trolling to me.

 

[DanCPA]

Yeah, but they could still have made more use of the character and the actress.

That's true of almost all characters. Sam Wildman could have made a great "Chief Obrien type everyman" character if re-used properly.

 

[Captain Proton]

I think all of the actors did a decent job and a few such as Ryan, Dawson, and Picardo were excellent. Funny I was just thinking about the worst/best acting from Voyager and the two names I came up with come from other series: Dwight Schultz (Barclay) I find irritating and unbelievable and I think John DeLancie (Q) owns his role.

 

[kissthestar]

1. What use should the writers have made of the premise? From the time Q spirited the Enterprise away into Delta quadrant, and the wormhole transport concept was introduced, the premise was just waiting to happen. Once in the Delta quandrant, the lost ship would run into all manner of species, of course. The Borg would have to be among them. What else would have happened? What-if-ers, state your ideas. Comply!

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

That's true of almost all characters. Sam Wildman could have made a great "Chief Obrien type everyman" character if re-used properly.

They tried to use her effectively... once. That was when she was trapped in that shuttle. Frankly, for all the use they got out of her, they should have just let her die in there.

 

[DanCPA]

I thought they did a good job showing the concern of a mother.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

# 1 - Great premise - horrible execution

# 2 - The Holowreck

# 3 - The worst cast ever assembled for a TV show

# 4 - TECHNOBABBLE Everywhere all the time

# 5 - Lameway

# 6 - Naiome Wildman - WHYYYYYYY after TNG would you take the worst aspect and trake it up a notch!

# 7 - Borg neutering

This show was an abomination

GR most be rolling over in his orbit

I agree with this somewhat, but the question I have for you: Are you on a vendetta? You did this over at the DS9 Forum as well. I bet you won't find a lot of "Love" over here with your comments.

 

[Anwar]

Dudes, I've run into this guy before. He hates all Modern Trek, not just VOY.

 

[kimc]

I'm assuming you came by to discuss and not just to troll

You must have great faith in mankind to have made such an assumption...talking points like "Lameway" suggest trolling to me.

Yeah, I'm a softie. Just ask anyone...