Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    May 9, 2012
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    In The Search For Spock, we see the lovely Grace Lee Whitney in an cameo as a Starfleet officer who watches bemusedly as the heavily battle damaged Enterprise comes back into spacedock.

    Of course, Grace was most well known for playing Janice Rand, a role she had played in The Original Series, reprised in The Motion Picture, and would again reprise in The Undiscovered Country. But here, in TSFS, she is credited simply as 'woman in cafeteria'. Although it is Grace Lee Whitney, there is no indication at all whether or not she is, in fact, playing Janice Rand.

    What do we think? Is it Janice? Or is it simply intended as an amusing cameo for the fans, for those who are keen-eyed enough to spot who the actress is?

    I understand that some of the novels set during that time have assumed that it's Janice. But what do you guys think? :)
  2. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

    Jun 9, 2013
    The Captain's Table
    I've always thought of the woman as Janice whether the credits say so or not. It's a nice touch and makes sense given her facial expression and body language. She shakes her head as if to say, "What the hell have they gotten themselves into now?" Whether she knew that Spock had died isn't clear, but she clearly has the look of someone who knows the people on board the ship.

  3. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

    Aug 23, 2001
    Full of hot air.
    Since we know Rand wound up on Excelsior anyway, it's hard to imagine why someone who looks just like her would be in the cafeteria the same time Excelsior was in dock.
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jan 20, 2007
    inside teacake
    Is there a reason she wasn't named as Rand?
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

    Nov 4, 2001
    Sitting on a cornflake.
    That was her cousin Ayn.
  6. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 26, 2007
    Baltimore, MD
    Of course it's Rand. Without a freaking doubt. If anything, the shmuck who wrote up the credits probably didn't know her character name.
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 10, 2005
    The visitor's bullpen

    I just hope she doesn't have a son named Paul...

    @Clegg: Assuming that was Janice, she still has time. She served on Excelsior in 2291, during the events of ST VI. The cafeteria scene is in ST III which is in 2285. So she has plenty of time to transfer.
  8. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Rear Admiral Moderator

    Jan 10, 2003
    OTOH, "Woman in Cafeteria" was a full commander, and prior to TUC, Rand was always portrayed as an NCO. Even when she went mustang in TUC, I believe she was still only a Lt. JG.
  9. Leto_II

    Leto_II Captain Captain

    Aug 31, 2013
    Room 303, The Heart O' The City Hotel
    Although in the VOY episode "Flashback" (concurrent with The Undiscovered Country), Rand has the rank of Commander or Lt. Commander, from what I remember.

    Basically, the whole Rand rank-issue is another discontinuity from that episode (alongside Lt. Valtane "dying," then showing up perfectly alive and well on the viewscreen at the end of the movie).

    Imperfections in Tuvok's memory-engrams from the events in that storyline, maybe?
  10. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    King Daniel Beyond
    She kept messing up her rank insignia on purpose, trying to make new Starfleet recruit Valaris feel more at home.

    And of course it's Janice.
  11. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

    Jul 29, 2013
    In TVH, she wears a, erm, midshipman's uniform? What happened to her commander status in TSFS?
  12. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

    Aug 5, 2013
    The Northern Shires of England.
    Thats the way I've always interpreted that scene. It's the same same look a mother gives to her kids when they come in covered in mud
  13. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

    Sep 10, 2012
    USS Berlin
    I wholeheartedly agree. The people in the cafeteria / lounge seem surprised to see the Enterprise battle-damaged like that, therefore I assume this is rather Excelsior personnel enjoying free time than a "welcome home" committee.

    For what it's worth the original pre-production sketch of this scene featured the Excelsior alongside instead of the Enterprise.

    And in ST VI we see here serve on the Excelsior under Captain Sulu. Maybe in ST III it was not her shift on the bridge, that's why we didn't see her there already.

    And it's a good thing to think she was already aboard the Excelsior under Captain Styles. At least it wouldn't look like she was asking her old "friend" Sulu for a favor, but got there on her own ("The Man Trap", were the two lovers?).

    Had I not seen publicity stills of her with the Vulcan salute from ST IV I probably would not have noticed her. I don't really think she was supposed to actually play Janice Rand, but it was a nice insider thing for the fans to notice. :)

  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 10, 2005
    The visitor's bullpen
    No, she doesn't. That character was not Rand.

    Rand herself appears standing next to the 'table' with Pres. Roth and Adm. Cartwright, and is in an officer uniform, but she doesn't have any lines.
  15. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Jun 30, 2004
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    I first met GLW at an Australian Trek convention not long after ST II came out. She was quite saddened not to have been asked back for ST II, but Rand was still aboard, as Transporter Chief, in Vonda McIntyre's novelization.

    Having volunteered to collect GLW from Sydney's domestic terminal and escort her to the international terminal, I forged a bit of a connection and she invited me to visit her at work when I came to LA. At the time, her regular day job was at an actors' agency (its office had a creek-like water feature running through it!), and she looked after the likes of Ted Shackleford ("Knott's Landing") and soon-to-be-late Jon-Erik Hexum ("Voyagers!", "Cover Up").

    When I arrived, in the January of 1984, filming of ST III had not long been completed and someone I met from the production mentioned in one breath that there was a secret cameo, and in a different breath mentioned having seen GLW at the wrap party!

    When I caught up with GLW, I told her what I suspected and she was thrilled to be able to chat about her role, but that yes, it was still meant to be top secret, so I actually kept it quiet till preview night Down Under. It was a last-minute favour granted by Nimoy, and filming of the Spacedock Cafeteria scene was at ILM, after principal photography had ended. So yes, it's supposed to be Rand, but the uniform had commander rank on it. (She originally said it was "the same as Kirk's", so I almost expected they'd accidentally given her admiral or captain insignia.) GLW looked amazing and she was extremely happy with the scene; Robert Wise had ordered her to remove her glam makeup for TMP, and she'd been devastated how harshly the camera had treated her.

    People will argue that it's not Rand in ST III, but the tears were meant to indicate that it was indeed Rand, watching her old, damaged home limp into dock.

    Coincidentally, Rand and Chapel's sudden disappearance from the Enterprise in the novelizations fits with the mention of Firenz (in the ST II novelization) being sent to retrieve the injured cadets and take them back ahead of time for medical treatment.

    Yes. It's a cameo. No lines to appear in the script. The scene wasn't even filmed until after principal photography ended. It was Directorial intention (ie. Nimoy) to make the character Rand.

    You are incorrect. She most definitely is in the jumpsuit and has scripted lines in ST IV, but they comprise background dialogue, and were included in appendices to to the main script.

    She's in officer uniform in ST III (and ST VI and "Flashback"), but a jumpsuit in ST IV.

    Here's a pic:

    Her character does appear briefly in the DC Comics that led up to the ST IV adaptation, and she's in an officer's uniform in those frames, as Cartwright's assistant.

    Oh yes she was! And she and Majel Barrett even got together before their studio call and rehearsed their lines together, because they knew they'd probably be little more than background players on the day of filming.

    In "Starlog", GLW mentioned how they were trying to ascertain a rank to fit her ST IV outfit and insignia. She remembered being called "Chief" in TMP, so they settled on Chief Petty Officer for ST IV.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  16. Mario de Monti

    Mario de Monti Captain Captain

    Jun 10, 2013
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Interesting. To me her appearance in TMP was the best she ever looked in Trek :)

    Very interesting story by the way. Thanks for telling :techman:
  17. Garrovick

    Garrovick Commander Red Shirt

    Jul 10, 2012
    wallowing in a pool of emotion
    It's definitely Rand in the Spacedock cafeteria as far as I'm concerned. Yes, the Commander insignia is a bit goofy but that would hardly be the first (or last) instance of incorrect costuming in Trek.
  18. jpv2000

    jpv2000 Captain Captain

    Dec 27, 2012
    Georgia, United States
    My thanks as well, Therin.

    I always knew it was Rand, as I never read the credits anyway. I just wait through them to see if we get any extra scenes. ;)
  19. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 18, 2004
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    As others have said, I agree it's Rand. That's the only way the reaction makes much sense.

    Regarding the two uniforms, I think we have to assume that the two uniforms are potentially interchangeable - not unlike what we saw with the TNG/DS9 uniforms for a while.

    Regarding Rand's changing rank, we might want to assume that one rank is actually her "correct" rank and others are a mistake. I think it's generally assumed that she was enlisted, but given her position aboard the Excelsior, I believe I'd like to think she went back to the Academy at some point pre-TSFS thus qualifying her for officer ranks.

    It also depends how much time you put bewteen TMP and TWOK, doesn't it? ;)
  20. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Jun 30, 2004
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    No problem.

    GLW came out in her TMP costume for Robert Wise's comments and he revealed a dislike of her TOS character from his research, calling her "Kirk's geisha girl" - and then he sent her back to Makeup to have her "glam" makeup removed before her scenes could be filmed. She was distressed because Nichelle, Majel and Persis were permitted glamour makeup - and Persis even had contractual airbrushing for still photos.

    Here's a pic of GLW stepping through the doors of International Departures in Sydney, Australia: