Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by xvicente, Apr 28, 2013.
Of course there is.
In about 160 years, it'll be invented by a little old lady from Leningrad.
You should work her into a novel as a character.
The movies and the television series are two separate things. You're also counting a whole lot of years of inactivity.For instance the series ended in 1969 and the first movie didn't hit the screen until ten years later.You don't get to count all those empty years.
Not really sure how that proves anything relevant to my original statement or the OP. But since you went there..
TOS was on the air for three years. TNG was on for seven years. TNG was more successful during it's run. That is fact. If you want to throw movies into the mix, then yes the original cast was more successful since they lasted 6 movies and most of them were better than TNG did in 4. That one I'll give you. But television series? Not even close. TOS was kicked off the air due to bad ratings while TNG was still strong when the series ended.
It started it all. No one is disputing that. But TNG picked that ball up and ran with it. Without TNG's success, Trek on T.V would have died in the 80s and the movies would have ended after TUC.
Because by this point few were watching VOY.
Why in the world would DS9 time travel to TNG? The two series were linked together. Only a few years separated them. Why in the world would they travel back in time a mere five years? We already got something like that with the TNG finale.
There is no "true" Star Trek IMO, just Star Trek. Yes I like certain series/films more than others but it's all part of the same overall storyline and universe, and has a lot of the same ideas explored.
This "true Star Trek" thing seems to be the nerd version of "I listened to that band before they were popular, so their new stuff sucks"
If making millions makes it "true" Star Trek, then TOS isn't "true" Star Trek. TOS had pretty bad ratings and was cancelled because of them. It really only became popular through re-runs and the movies.
TOS made millions.
I'm not saying the other Treks didn't but you cannot deny TOS was profitable.
Somewhere on these boards it says CBS makes 10 million a year currently just from TOS merchandising.
Technically "The Cage" would be the only true Trek, seeing as it was Roddenberry's original vision for the series.
You don't think that might have something to do with the recent rebooted movies? What was TOS pulling in back before JJ Abrams came along and rose Star Trek from the ashes?
It was season two (Death Wish).
I'm pretty sure those were the numbers before Abrams came along as the money was a point of contention as Bad Robot wanted TOS merchandise pulled so they weren't competing with themselves on the merchandising front.
And the number I saw was twenty million.
There may be a bit of that going on with the reaction to NuTrek as well. "But . . . but some of the people seeing the movies don't even know what a Gorn is!"
I hear that all the time as an argument used by the filmmakers against including something in a film. "The audience... so stupid, they would be confused!"
But it's not really comparable. TNG was first-run syndication, where the competition was considerably less than it would be in a network prime-time slot. TNG, like TOS, never cracked the top 30 in ratings, and it is highly doubtful it would have lasted as long as it did on one of the big four broadcast networks.
Specially after the 1st season.
And not to mention TOS was a huge success when it reruns went into syndication too. I am pretty sure the series would not have been cancelled if they knew what was going to happen later.
They didn't continue the franchise in movies out of the goodness of their hearts.
That's not entirely accurate, though. During TNG's real heydey, around the time of the 5th and 6th seasons, it was pulling in ratings that went head-to-head with its network competition. In particular, I remember Paramount being very proud of the fact that TNG was beating the ratings for Monday Night Football.
It may not be a direct apples-to-apples comparison, since TNG was syndicated, but people forget just how phenomenally popular TNG was. It definitely pulled ratings comparable to successful network shows, and I think it could have succeeded on a network.
Some of us didn't discover TOS until that fallow period between the 1969 and 1979 (I discovered the show in syndication around 1977-78, and I may have already been reading the James Blish books by that point).
So while it's true that there was no new Star Trek during that decade, I wouldn't call that period "empty". For me, every episode I saw for a while was a new one.
And if it weren't for TOS, and its fanbase, there would have been no movies, no TNG and no franchise. Pointing at TNG's ratings alone proves nothing. Especially since, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it was discovered that TOS was actually a huge hit - among the demographic that they wanted to reach. But Nielsen didn't track those numbers back then - just the raw numbers, and by those metrics, yes, TOS did poorly.
The truth is, science fiction and fantasy have always been something of a niche interest. No incarnation of Trek is going to get the raw number of eyeballs that Friends got, or Big Bang Theory, or How I Met Your Mother. But science fiction fans are passionate, and we spend money on the merchandising, which makes it worth the studios' while to give us something to watch. (When was the last time you walked past someone on the street who was wearing a Seinfeld T-shirt, for instance?)
This is insane, and in a great way!
Now there can be a remake of Yellow Submarine, but we can call it Star Trek: Yellow Submarine! Of course, it would have to be explained as a dream, or that they had gone to a lost colony called Pepperland invaded by aliens that acted like the Blue Meanies, or it's an alternate universe that the story's set in. But it might work, all the same.
EDIT: BTW, here's some art influenced by this pic and Yellow Submarine:
Star Trek Yellow Submarine
Star Trek Beatles
I think we can all agree that TNG was a success too. It was one of the most successful first run syndicated shows.
But TOS was a success too. Unfortunately for its fans its true success was realized after the show was cancelled and it only got 3 seasons. But how many cancelled series can you name that got 6 movies and started an entire franchise?
And heck it wasn't just unfortunate for the fans. The actors were suddenly part of this big hit series but they weren't getting paid for it.
I am not sure what time slot TOS was on its first season but in its 3rd season it was pushed at 10:00 Friday night. One of its main audiences was college students, what do you think they were doing Friday night (and remember this was well before VCRs)
When the reruns went into syndication & could be put on better times it proved it had a size able audience.
I actually think Star Trek's success story is pretty historically interesting.
Separate names with a comma.