Is TOS considered an integral part of pop culture?

[Terran_Empire]

Got into this debate today with a guy from work. He was mentioning how seeing people dressed up as Nazis at costume parties was appalling and I sort of shrugged and gave some examples of how Nazi symbolism has been integrated into pop culture (normally as the subject of satire and criticism) so I cite Patterns of Force, Mitchell and Webb, Family Guy among others and he stops me as asks why anyone would consider a 1960s Star Trek as part of pop culture...

Arguments ensued where I claimed perhaps he was conflating "contemporary culture" with "pop culture" and it just ended on me mentioning The Beatles at which point he fell silent.

Are Kirk and Spock not still household names? Maybe when you're a Trek fan you assume everyone appreciate it as much as you do..

 

[newpball]

Are Kirk and Spock not still household names?

Sure for die-hard Star Trek fans and some folks over 40. The rest of the population basically moved on.

It's like asking a 40 year old about what he thinks about the household name Bob Hope. He'll likely give you a stare.



6766

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Are Kirk and Spock not still household names?

Sadly, this one of those questions that if you have to ask it, the answer's usually no.

That said, your example in your conversation with your friend was well-placed; thankfully people dressing up as Nazis is extremely limited, particularly the non-ironic kind.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Being an integral part of pop culture is different from either simply being a part of pop culture or having been integrated into pop culture. While the latter two apply in the case of TOS to a limited degree, the former implies being a key or predominant part, which, sadly, does not apply.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

I'd say no.

It's really just a niche thing. Most people don't really understand Star Trek.

on some political forums I've been I've been criticized really negatively (read full out insulted and berated) just for saying I was a fan and would to see our country and our planet to be more like the Federation, with and end or at least a huge reduction in the amount of intolerance and bigotry between liberals, conservatives, and Christians. I would really love to see a society that is based on real mutual respect and living with each other instead of all this fighting and me and my own attitude that permeates the American culture.

Most people just don't want that kind of society, at least most people in America, at least as far as i can tell.

Edit:

In fact, the racists of one board I was on flat out called it negro thinking because they thought America was a Christian nation and was based on traditional conservative beliefs of work ethics and Christian tradition.

I left that forum and never went back again.

I apologize for using the n word, I truly am not trying to be insulting or trolling.

 

[CrazyMatt]

Of course it is. How many people have never heard of Star Trek? Or don't know what "beam me up" means? Or don't recognize the character of Spock?

 

[Poltargyst]

Of course it is. How many people have never heard of Star Trek? Or don't know what "beam me up" means? Or don't recognize the character of Spock?

I'd say NuTrek has made Kirk and Spock household names again. I'll just echo your questions. How many people really don't know who Kirk and Spock are?

 

[Lance]

I'd say that there was a time when Trek was part of a 'zeitgeist' that it currently no longer is, but that isn't exactly the same as popular culture.

On reflection I'd say it *is* pop culture, by the very merit that everybody knows who Spock and Kirk are. And Khaaaaaaan. They're icons, and that's enough to make it pop cultural.

But that isn't quite the same as, say, how people treat Star Wars with a kind of never-ending reverence, even when new productions aren't being made. Star Wars is the juggernaut of pop culture.

Star Trek is, and always will be, something 'other' to a lot of people.

 

[JWPlatt]

Most people just don't want that kind of society...

Why not?

 

[Terran_Empire]

Of course it is. How many people have never heard of Star Trek? Or don't know what "beam me up" means? Or don't recognize the character of Spock?

Basically the notion I was trying to convey to my dear friend. Pop culture as an idea is merely a collective that does not discriminate against what is "old" or "liked". We are only talking about the recognition or familiarity of the work in question.

Anytime someone uses "Star Trek" as a derogatory reference to belittle science fiction enthusiasts that in itself is tapping into pop culture and using those commonly known ideas or images (in this case Trek) to convey a message.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

Most people just don't want that kind of society...

Why not?

I have no answer for that, but my best guess is they like the statues quo and are resistant to change.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I was recently in NYC, and while there visited the Empire State Building. Part of the tour was a Kevin Bacon- voiceovered ride which had a cameo by James Doohan's Scotty. So yeah, Trek's definitely part of pop culture although I'm not so sure it's an integral part.

Plus, they're still making big budget blockbuster movies based upon it, keeping the characters in the public eye.

 

[T'Girl]

TOS as a whole is certainly not a part of modern pop culture and while Captain Kirk was for many years, the character has fade away. Mr. Spock is still there at a low level, as is a "phaser."

If you dressed as Spock at a party, you likely would not have to explain to people who you're dressed as. And maybe that a good example what pop culture is.

There was episode of South Park where the 2nd graders came to school in halloween costumes, Eric Cartman's mother dressed him as a klansman, when he got sent home to change, she then dressed him as Hitler.

I have no answer for that, but my best guess is they like the statues quo and are resistant to change.

There is a perception that not all change is good, and that while things can get better, there is also the possibility of things getting worse.

When I tell people about the world of Star Trek, the technology-starships-aliens the usual reaction is usually "cool." Although when I tell them that the later Federation seems to exist in a state of near constant warfare the reaction is either bad or the observation of "kind of like now huh?"

 

[MacLeod]

Is ST an integral part of pop culture, no. Is anything really an integral part of pop culture?

Is ST part of pop culture, yes. Only so far as that people will understand some of the referrences that people might make. i.e. Beam me up Scotty. Sure a misquote but the same can be said of "Play it again sam" now how many of us know where that misquote comes from, and how many of us have actually seen the film?

 

[Melakon]

As long as the phrase 'warp speed' is being used in magazine articles without explanation, I'd say Trek is embedded in culture.

 

[The Old Mixer]

It's definitely part of our pop culture...how big a part is going to vary by generation and other factors, but that could be said for anything that's part of pop culture. Whether or not it's an integral part is trickier, as CorporalCaptain distinguished. I will say this...we've had real-life astronauts who've cited Trek as an inspiration...that's got to count for something. Also note how much media attention Leonard Nimoy's death received. Clearly Trek made some impact.

 

[Harvey]

Star Trek is as much a part of American pop culture as I Love Lucy or The Twilight Zone. Many people may have never actually seen any of those shows, but there's still enough recognition that they continue to be the subject of everything from parody to kitchen magnets.

 

[telerites]

Well Kirk was #22 and Spock was #23 in this 2011 CBS News list of the 50 greatest TV characters. Doesn't mean ST is an integral part of pop culture necessarily but there have been lots of TV shows/characters.

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/50-greatest-tv-characters/

 

[Melakon]

It's as integral as Mayberry as a cultural reference.

 

[Lance]

I think the fact that Trek definitely exists as part of pop culture can be found in the incredible number of memes it has generated: everything from KHHHAAAAAAANNNNN! to the Picard Facepalm. The greatest indicator of a work's place in pop culture is if it can be dropped into a conversation on the assumption that everybody will know what you're talking about without explanation, and if that is the case, then it's definitely pop culture. Evem peeps who've never seen Star Trek will know what Star Trek is.