I think the way TNG Trek sees it, military duties are an alternate function well behind exploration, science, diplomacy and law enforcement on the priority list.
Is there still a Remembrance Day in the 23 & 24 centuries?
- Thread starter Shaka Zulu
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I think the way TNG Trek sees it, military duties are an alternate function well behind exploration, science, diplomacy and law enforcement on the priority list.
I dunno. I get the sense that the utopia evolved past mega celebratory and mourning days. I'm sure people out there recognize various ones by themselves. A captain may even push it on his crew. But Federation wide? Nah.
Frankly it's something I despise in our society. The intentions are good I guess. But they are all just consumer and/or political events.
Frankly it's something I despise in our society. The intentions are good I guess. But they are all just consumer and/or political events.
I think the priority list would be the reverse of that.
Starfleet would drop exploration and research to run and fight a war. It would be hard to see them abandoning combat in order to engage in normal exploration. Starfleet might have enough assets to do both at the same time, but if it came down to one or the other, offense/defense comes first.
Exploration and the other things are what Starfleet does when they aren't occupied with job one.
Look at the American (or any nations) military, what do they spend the most amount of time doing? Fighting wars? No, they spend the majority of their time training. But that isn't their primary task, it's what they do whent they are not fighting a war.
The US Air Force flies into hurricanes for research and supports the American civilian bases in Antarctica.
But that not the the first thing on their priority list.
And of course there was COLONEL West in ST VI, and the ground troops often spoken of in DS9 episodes (and seen in one). What these troops are actually called, though, is not clear. I prefer the term 'Starfleet Marines', simply because it sounds cool.
Actually all the Starfleet isn't the military nonsense started with TNG, it was still pretty evident in TOS that Starfleet was a military organization.
The only reason TOS gets dragged into that Starfleet is not a military thing is that for some reason there are people who weren't really paying attention to Kirk and Christopher's conversation which was about what branch of the military the Enterprise belonged to not whether it was a military vessel or not.
Besides if you look at the first Mass Effect the main character and his crew are outright said to represent humanity's military and they pretty much do similar stuff that Starfleet does in Star Trek.
Starfleet is obviously a military; what it is not, is militarISTIC. There's the difference.
You actually took my post out of its context, which was about Starfleet not generally relying on force as a first option. In most occasions, Starfleet captains try to talk their way out of a tight situation first.
I really think the whole is Starfleet a military or not thing is quite silly because those in charge of Starfleet can really call it whatever they want while others will call it whatever they want. Both can be right depending on how they view it.
According to Shatner's Star Trek Movie Memories, Gene did see ST VI, and hated it. But he died 2 or 3 days later, so wasn't able to fire off any angry memos.
The dialogue in Insurrection seems to support exactly this.
Whether Picard is in denial or not... Starfleet is military. It's just that in the 23rd century, they didn't sit around denying it.
That isn't what they tell us or how they act; in TNG Trek at least, Starfleet does in fact act as if diplomacy and exploration and science is their primary work. Picard's command style reflects this, it's why he goes to extreme lengths to avoid combat.
NuTrek Starfleet is harder to get a read on. They certainly don't act like a military, but I think that's just owed to the comic book sensibilities of the writing. Pike describes them as a "peacekeeping and humanitarian armada" and Scotty in STID asks if they're supposed to be some kind of military now, because he thought they were explorers. So it's pretty clear that the not-a-military concept has been imported into the latest version of the franchise.
Starfleet in TOS of course does behave like a non-militaristic military as Mr. Laser Beam points out. The conceit of Starfleet's not-being-a-military was a later development.
I think there are some statements made in Trek that might suggest the Federation has some type of Remembrance Day. The keyword is "might".
There is a lot of pacific-ism and anti military attitudes shown by Fed citizens and Starfleet itself.
The funny thing is, some of it is almost disturbing, while on the other hand this is the ideal society you would want to live in.
It would be fun to get to peacefully pursue your career like being an archaeologist, while at the same time getting to wear a uniform and receiving a rank.
That's one of the things you love about Star trek and what the federation represents.
At the same time, they don't always do the normal things you'd think a military does to protect their country before a strike hits them.
They seem almost naive.
Like having the Enterprise, their flag ship, on an archaeological survey during the heat of the Dominion war.
You can rule out a Veterans Day though...it may just too "military" for the Federation.
There is a lot of pacific-ism and anti military attitudes shown by Fed citizens and Starfleet itself.
The funny thing is, some of it is almost disturbing, while on the other hand this is the ideal society you would want to live in.
It would be fun to get to peacefully pursue your career like being an archaeologist, while at the same time getting to wear a uniform and receiving a rank.
That's one of the things you love about Star trek and what the federation represents.
At the same time, they don't always do the normal things you'd think a military does to protect their country before a strike hits them.
They seem almost naive.
Like having the Enterprise, their flag ship, on an archaeological survey during the heat of the Dominion war.
You can rule out a Veterans Day though...it may just too "military" for the Federation.
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This was about three or four years after Deanna ran the Enterprise Dee into that planet, so the Enterprise was no longer the "flagship."
The stated mission of the Enterprise E does make sense during the course of a war, at the start of the movie the Enterprise was engaged in acquiring another ally for the Federation.
The follow on mission (an archaeological survey) would also make sense if the purpose of the "dig" was to locate technology or information that would be of use in the war effort.
Plus, just because fighting the Dominion and it's allies would be Starfleet and it's allies priority, some ships could have been held back for other duties.
It might be different on various member worlds, Humans do seem to be more invested in Starfleet than other member species.
So Starfleet and it's deeds could be more celebrated on Human worlds.
True, but even in the context of gaining a wartime ally that action would seem odd..the people they were described as "significantly less advanced" than the Federation and had achieved warp capability a year prior.
But that's reaching pretty far--as far as the dialogue goes, they were intending to go on an old fashion, leisurely archaeological survey.
Heck, even after they were told to cancel and go to the other system, 'Picard says, "(sigh)..remember when we used to be explorers?"
It was a brutal war of attrition going on, but those damn war-related missions kept getting in the way of their scientific research fun time.
Of course, but according to DS9, the Federation repeatedly came close to losing the war. Betazed and other planets conquered, the mine field brought down, several entire fleets and shipyards destroyed.
If the invasion of Betazed happened during the time of the movie, the crew's lack of mentioning it would really be odd.
It was just seem odd that with all this going on, having one of the most advanced ships in the fleet away from the fighting--why make a ship with advance weaponry only not to use it in a war of galactic survival?
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In Whom Gods Destroy, the mission was delivering medicine. Prior to that (Elaan of Troyius) the mission was diplomatic. After WGWD (Let That Be Your Last Battlefield) the mission was decontaminating a planet.
In the event of war, the first two missions likely would have been dropped, with the Enterprise being tasked to combat. Only the third mission might have still been undertook, and if the Federation's need were pressing enough, that too might have been either dropped or possible transferred to a non-combat ship.
From Errand of Mercy, Kirk: "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat."
There is a belief among some fans that the Federation is a direct result of the Romulan war, that one lead to the other (although the exact sequence of events is unclear), and that without the Romulan War the initial stimulus to form the Federation would have been lacking.
The Federation was forged in war.
From the history of the Federation, especial what we learned in TNG, war and warfare are a constant. Protracted conflicts, border wars, Starfleet's responsibility to act as the Federation's protectors is an on-going task.
Holidays such as Veterans Day and Memorial Day (different names in different countries), are acknowledgements and expressions of gratitude to military personnel (past and present) who either served or sacrificed their life's in the defense of others within their societies.
If you take the twelve movies as a group, they show Starfleet as the Federation's military. The beginning of TWoK with Starfleet cadets engaging in a combat simulation, and the beginning of FC with the fleet battling the Borg, show Starfleet in a military role. ST: Eleven also had cadets in a combat simulator, in ST: Darkness when a ship was needed to fire torpedoes on the Klingon homeworld, a Starfleet ship was sent.
But the Federation is repeatedly shown to be willing to employ violence as a means of protection.
Agree with all above, and also think that what we see in the movie happens a lot on a specific day.
Because reasons.
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