On the subject of Zephram Cochrane, the novel Federation forever spoiled me for any other interpretation of that character. The ageing, drunken hippy of the movie First Contact is definitely NOT the kind of interpretation the character deserved.
Is there in Truth no beauty - Introducing Betazoids?
- Thread starter Crewman47
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Agreed.
Oh, dunno. The ZC in "Metamorphosis" always stuck me as a guy who has been given a second chance in life. He was supposedly fleeing something, disappearing into space like that. All sorts of intriguing possibilities here: perhaps he killed somebody, or invented a weapon that killed trillions, or considered his previous life a dismal failure, or was unhappy in love, or too happy, or whatever. Being a greedy drunkard is as good a "previous life" for him as any...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
I disagree. It was a very smart acknowledgment of the fact that legends are created, not born, that the way history remembers important people is always edited and adjusted. Of course the real Zefram Cochrane would be far more human and fallible than the mythologized figure revered by later generations. But the point of the film was that that didn't matter -- that the myth, the dream, still inspired a whole civilization to better itself, and inspired Cochrane to better himself too. Star Trek isn't about human perfection, but about human perfectability, and that message doesn't work without acknowledging human fallibility.
Of course the real Zefram Cochrane would have been more human and fallible. But the First Contact version was a caricature. I just can't see any connection between that Cochrane and the one in Metamorphosis other than their names.
And back on the original topic: If only they'd chosen a different actress than Diana Muldaur to play Miranda... she's a good actress, but the character was so damn unlikable.
Would a Betazoid have needed a mechanical device (the sensor thingy on her dress) to perceive her surroundings? Do Betazoids have any enhanced awareness of their physical surroundings? Just wondering - honest questions, folks.
And back on the original topic: If only they'd chosen a different actress than Diana Muldaur to play Miranda... she's a good actress, but the character was so damn unlikable.
Would a Betazoid have needed a mechanical device (the sensor thingy on her dress) to perceive her surroundings? Do Betazoids have any enhanced awareness of their physical surroundings? Just wondering - honest questions, folks.
Last time I checked, Lawrence of Arabia wasn't from Arabia.
The Metamorphosis Cochrane was barely a character.Timewalker said:
I'm more irritated in the casting choice of James Cromwell for Cochrane, instead of someone a helluva lot closer to Glen Corbett, like, say, the then-affordable George Clooney.
He was presented as a dignified person. There was nothing dignified about the movie version of Cochrane.The Metamorphosis Cochrane was barely a character.Timewalker said:
Yeah, but he was 204 years younger at that point. Is it really any surprise that he was a very different person then? (Although it still bugs me that they cast an actor far too old for the role, since Cochrane would've only been in his 30s at that point.)
Dignifed??? Dont confuse Corbett's stiff acting with dignity. Cochrane is sad, lonely,eager, a little confused and later angry. I cant help but imagine what TOS Cochrane would have been like in the hand a better actor. And lets face even on his worst day Cromwell can act circles around Corbett.He was presented as a dignified person. There was nothing dignified about the movie version of Cochrane.The Metamorphosis Cochrane was barely a character.Timewalker said:
Since I never saw Corbett in anything else, I had nothing to compare his performance with. And that's irrelevant anyway - the Cochrane presented in Metamorphosis was nothing like the movie version, and I cannot in my wildest imagination fathom how the movie version and the TV version could possibly be the same character.Dignifed??? Dont confuse Corbett's stiff acting with dignity. Cochrane is sad, lonely,eager, a little confused and later angry. I cant help but imagine what TOS Cochrane would have been like in the hand a better actor. And lets face even on his worst day Cromwell can act circles around Corbett.He was presented as a dignified person. There was nothing dignified about the movie version of Cochrane.The Metamorphosis Cochrane was barely a character.
I have seen Corbett in other things. He's not a great actor.
As Christopher pointed out we are looking at very different times in the character's life. It shouldnt take much imagination to think that in his "youth" Cochrane might be different than he was as a older man.
Like... much taller? Completely different body type?
And why, if Cochrane met Picard, etc. in his "youth", didn't he immediately realize that Kirk and the others were from Star Fleet? (reverse retcon, I know, but I just Really Cannot Stand the way the character was used in the movie).
And why, if Cochrane met Picard, etc. in his "youth", didn't he immediately realize that Kirk and the others were from Star Fleet? (reverse retcon, I know, but I just Really Cannot Stand the way the character was used in the movie).
Different actors doesnt mean different characters. ( See Saavik or James Bond).
Lets look at the scene where they meet:
Metamorphosis said:
All Cochrane knows is that they are humans (except for Spock) from something called the Federation. An organization he's never heard of and apparently it doesnt really matter to him.
ETA
And TOS Cochrane could be a dick when things turned out differently than he thought:
Metamorphosis said:
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Again -- the events of First Contact were two hundred and four years in his past. And in the interim he'd grown to an advanced age, nearly died, and been rejuvenated repeatedly by a mysterious alien energy being. There's no telling how much memory he could've lost in the interim. Not to mention that Kirk and his crew were wearing completely different uniforms and using completely different technology than Picard and crew had. Even the insignias weren't quite the same. Easy to forget details like that after two centuries and change.
Let's not forget why Cochrane is still alive: the Companion met him, decided for him what would be best for him, and twisted the universe a bit to allow him to continue living.
The Cochrane our TOS heroes meet is a rejuvenated, idealized man - quite possibly the sort of man the Cochrane of ST:FC would have wanted to be, had he been given the choice. The Companion gave him that choice, either conscious or then not.
The idea of having George Clooney play the ST:FC character is an amusing one. But story logic would perhaps best be met if George Clooney played the TOS character, as the man the ST:FC character secretly wanted to be.
Timo Saloniemi
The Cochrane our TOS heroes meet is a rejuvenated, idealized man - quite possibly the sort of man the Cochrane of ST:FC would have wanted to be, had he been given the choice. The Companion gave him that choice, either conscious or then not.
The idea of having George Clooney play the ST:FC character is an amusing one. But story logic would perhaps best be met if George Clooney played the TOS character, as the man the ST:FC character secretly wanted to be.
Timo Saloniemi
I'm pretty sure that Cochrane never saw any Enterprise personnel in uniform; they all wore civvies when they were around him and his people.
I, too, much resented Zefram Cochrane depicted as a booze sodden asshole. Corbett may not have been a great actor, but he got the essence of the character across. TOS Cochrane did have a measure of old world dignity to him as well as a decent measure of idealism. That definately comes across since those are the traits the writer, director and actor chose to feature in the character. And nowhere does he say anything like, "I was a drunken bastard once and I'd love a second chance."
The FC Cochrane was a deliberate 180 degree refutation of the TOS depiction. I don't mind roughing up the edges, but before they made nuKirk a jackass in ST09 they made Cochrane an asshole in FC.
The FC Cochrane was a deliberate 180 degree refutation of the TOS depiction. I don't mind roughing up the edges, but before they made nuKirk a jackass in ST09 they made Cochrane an asshole in FC.
I didn't mind the drunken sot bit. It was going from lantern-jawed All-American leading man to Stretch Cunningham that bugs me. Radiation poisoning and chronic alcohol abuse can only explain so much.
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