Spoilers Is there a way to win the war without using time travel?

[Krandor]

Here is an article that discusses why time travel would not be necessary to make everything "fit"

https://www.inverse.com/article/407...y-klingon-war-history-canon-classic-tos-sarek

 

[Tuskin38]

Here is an article that discusses why time travel would not be necessary to make everything "fit"

https://www.inverse.com/article/407...y-klingon-war-history-canon-classic-tos-sarek

A decent theory.

 

[Cyrus]

I don't think there is any need for time travel. If Fedration has lost 20% of its territory then they just have to get it back now that they have the anti-cloaking technology.

As to why this 20% wasn't mentioned in other series, give me a break. Was there ever a need to mention that Klingons temporarily conquered 20% of Federation? That would have been a clunky and useless line of dialogue that obviously wasn't going to happen. When a war happens each side makes some advances. It's the outcome that matters.

 

[Jayson1]

I wonder if the Klingons will be a faceless enemy for the next two episodes or will they actually create a new character to sort of represent them or bring in a old character like Kor or I would kind of prefer younger Gorkon. Show us why he was so into trying to make peace by the fact that he has been a party to war when he was younger. Of course with are luck we will get our THIRD Donald Trump villian who talks about wanting to build a wall or a neutral zone between them and the Federation.


Jason

 

[MvRojo]

I don't think there is any need for time travel. If Fedration has lost 20% of its territory then they just have to get it back now that they have the anti-cloaking technology.

As to why this 20% wasn't mentioned in other series, give me a break. Was there ever a need to mention that Klingons temporarily conquered 20% of Federation? That would have been a clunky and useless line of dialogue that obviously wasn't going to happen. When a war happens each side makes some advances. It's the outcome that matters.

Exactly.

Occupying 20% of Federation space might just mean that it's space that the Federation is pushed out of and that they can easily take back with a tactical advantage of the anti-cloak technology and even the spore drive (though I don't expect them to use it). The Axis Powers occupied a large portion of Europe in WWII, but we don't talk about that unless we are in a deep discussion of WWII that requires that to be brought up. Star Trek has been incredibly vague about large portions of its history, particularly between ENT and TOS, and between the TOS movies and TNG, and even more vague about wars and Klingon-Federation relations during those periods. There's Picard mentioning the disastrous first contact, Martok saying the Klingons never attacked Earth, and little tidbits like that, but there's never been a detailed timeline of events.

 

[Hythlodeus]

The Axis Powers occupied a large portion of Europe in WWII, but we don't talk about that unless we are in a deep discussion of WWII that requires that to be brought up.

You're not from Europe, I assume?

 

[MvRojo]

You're not from Europe, I assume?

I'm not. If you are, how often does the occupation of France or Poland come up in conversation?

 

[Hythlodeus]

I'm not. If you are, how often does the occupation of France or Poland come up in conversation?

quite often, to be honest. Poland at the moment anyway, with their ridiculous new Holocaust laws. I actually had a discussion about exactly that 2 hrs ago.
Nazism is a problem that plagues my country to this day on a daily basis. the ideology is like cancer, hard to get rid off. so we talk about it, we reflect on it, articles about it and those who still believe in that shit are written on a daily basis; rightfully so, so we will never forget the crimes on humanity our ancestors commited

 

[Leviathan]

The long night has come. The Federation, the greatest civilization in history, has fallen. Now one ship, one crew, have vowed to drive back the night and rekindle the light of civilization. On the starship Discovery... hope lives again.

 

[Cyrus]

The long night has come. The Federation, the greatest civilization in history, has fallen. Now one ship, one crew, have vowed to drive back the night and rekindle the light of civilization. On the starship Discovery... hope lives again.

Yeah, that was Robert Hewitt Wolf's pitch for a new Trek series, which he later used for that other TV series.

 

[Succubint]

Maybe I'm just weirdly unimaginative or ignorant of what needs to be fixed canonically, but it never even occurred to me that they'd have make the resolution of the Klingon war a time travel reset kinda deal. I was just assuming that they'd use the knowledge they'd gained so far and assets at their disposal. Basically a mix of the following: the intel on penetrating the Klingon cloak that they got at the end of ep 10, tactical advice from MU Georgiou who has conquered the Klingons in the past, intel from Tyler who probably still has insight into the Klingon psyche, reluctant help from L'Rell as well after an event which convinces her that her people could get wiped out if the Federation is pushed too far. Then, after the Klingons have gotten clobbered enough to parley, firm diplomacy to get everyone to agree on an uneasy, shaky truce.

 

[mdtauk]

Officialy the war has never ended until the Treaty of Organia ... DISCO will end in a cold war ...
Discovery allone can attack numerous klingon outposts, ships and regain the systems the federation has lost over the last 9 months in a couple of "Minutes". Jump BOOM Jump BOOM Jump BOOM ... eaaasy.
Or they can jump directly to Qo´noS aim a couple of torpedos on the main city and the klingons can do nothing against it.

I think they will do well.

Exactly. The war is not won, but hostilities were halted, and it became a cold war. The formation of The Federation Neutral Zone needs to take place.

Burnham could push for a meeting on Nimbus III to establish the Zone, at the end of Season 1. Then Season 2 onwards is about rebuilding the Federation, so it is as we saw it in TOS

 

[RedAlert]

Well ... a Tribbles plague on the Klingon territory should be enough to show who is the boss.

 

[Jayson1]

Maybe Tribbles are the answer. Starfleet starts beaming them into Klingon engine rooms and it becomes no tribble at all in beating them. Cyarno Jones who provided Starfleet with the Tribbles is honored as a war hero.


Jason

 

[picardjean-luc]

The long night has come. The Federation, the greatest civilization in history, has fallen. Now one ship, one crew, have vowed to drive back the night and rekindle the light of civilization. On the starship Discovery... hope lives again.

Shouldn't USS Discovery be renamed USS Andromeda ??

 

[Beyerstein]

At the end of the last episode when Saru pulls up the map he's like it appears we've lost. Then in this weeks episdode it looks like they're gonna walk it back a little like we're only down by 20%

 

[Locutus of Bored]

At the end of the last episode when Saru pulls up the map he's like it appears we've lost. Then in this weeks episdode it looks like they're gonna walk it back a little like we're only down by 20%

It was just an initial reaction to the severity of the situation. Given the narrow scope of the tactical map they were viewing, watching it rapidly fill up with red as the Klingon lines continued expanding over the Federation must have been pretty terrifying. Once they finally get into contact with Starfleet, then they'll get the full details and see that while it's still pretty horrific losses Starfleet and the Federation is suffering, it's not a total loss.

 

[Jayson1]

What never makes sense to me is how could Starfleet ever loose a war to just about anyone. They literally got hundreds of worlds to drawl resources and people from and that doesn't even include colonies and non-alligned allies. How could one world ever stand up against that? At least with the Dominion it was kind of like the evil version of the federation which also had many worlds under it's control and I guess creating Jem'Haddar and Vorta must be like no big deal at all since they just hatch them from cloning facuilities.

Jason

 

[SJGardner]

At the end of the last episode when Saru pulls up the map he's like it appears we've lost. Then in this weeks episdode it looks like they're gonna walk it back a little like we're only down by 20%

Wars have been lost with less than 20% of the loser's territory conquered. A war generally ends when one of the belligerents loses their ability or their will to effectively fight back. Saru was unable to reach Starfleet so it was easy to reach a conclusion that they've retreated from the contested area totally.

 

[Jayson1]

Wars have been lost with less than 20% of the loser's territory conquered. A war generally ends when one of the belligerents loses their ability or their will to effectively fight back. Saru was unable to reach Starfleet so it was easy to reach a conclusion that they've retreated from the contested area totally.

This might be true but I think they were clearly playing the moment up to create a sense of false tension to make things more dire than they might be revealed. I mean it is a Cliffhanger type of moment so most of those are kind of false. It's the same as someone being shot with a gun and when you come back from commerical break they are talking about it only being a flesh wound. Not sure what they did is wrong but it did sort of set up I think a more interested situation in people's minds of having the Federation being totally defeated only to fall back on a situation that might not be as interesting though that will all depend on the story the actually tell instead of the one they implied.

Jason