Spoilers Is there a way to win the war without using time travel?

[eschaton]

Discovery allone can attack numerous klingon outposts, ships and regain the systems the federation has lost over the last 9 months in a couple of "Minutes". Jump BOOM Jump BOOM Jump BOOM ... eaaasy.
Or they can jump directly to Qo´noS aim a couple of torpedos on the main city and the klingons can do nothing against it.

Can they? I was under the impression that even though the mycelial network was saved, Discovery used up their entire spore supply. No spores, and they're just a conventional warp ship.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Can they? I was under the impression that even though the mycelial network was saved, Discovery used up their entire spore supply. No spores, and they're just a conventional warp ship.

If the spores already aboard Discovery weren't also healed along with the network, what's to prevent them from simply harvesting some more? It might take a while to build up a full supply again, though, which could limit their jump frequency somewhat. They might have to use the spore drive more sparingly.

 

[Tuskin38]

Have Burnham convince Voq/Tyler

I'm pretty sure L'Rell killed the Voq personality (she did do the Klingon death scream), it's just Tyler now.

Stamets wasn't a navigator until he just upped and injected himself with the spores, so there's no reason that I'm aware of why they couldn't do that with someone else.

That would be against Federation law. Then again they are at war.

 

[eschaton]

If the spores already aboard Discovery weren't also healed along with the network, what's to prevent them from simply harvesting some more? It might take a while to build up a full supply again, though, which could limit their jump frequency somewhat. They might have to use the spore drive more sparingly.

Yeah. We really have no idea how the spores were cultured, but it was probably over a period of months, not years - unless Stamets brought cultures from whatever lab he was working on before being drafted.

 

[Spot261]

Discovery allone can attack numerous klingon outposts, ships and regain the systems the federation has lost over the last 9 months in a couple of "Minutes". Jump BOOM Jump BOOM Jump BOOM ... eaaasy.
Or they can jump directly to Qo´noS aim a couple of torpedos on the main city and the klingons can do nothing against it.

It bothered me we didn't really see Discovery used in this way during the earlier war arc. We heard mention of a mission behind Klingon lines but on screen she was basically used to respond faster to emergencies and rescue Lorca, constantly being used reactively rather than proactively. She should have been launching regular hit and run raids throughout the Klingon Empire , making it clear that their entire territory was vulnerable at the flick of a switch and weakening their other borders inviting aggression from other neighbouring powers and forcing the Klingons to pull back and station ships in long term deterrence roles within their own space.

 

[seigezunt]

There will be canon loyalist brains all over the deck to scrub up though, if this isn't reset.

Well, there's that going for it.

 

[uniderth]

The easiest way out of all of this is, unfortunately, a reset.

Nah. A reset is unnecessary. The easiest way out of all this is just to ignore Discovery.

I hope someday we'll have a Star Trek series set in the 2250s.

 

[eschaton]

There will be canon loyalist brains all over the deck to scrub up though, if this isn't reset.

I have no issue with people liking this show. But I really, really don't understand when people criticize the show from a writing/plotting perspective when people respond from a canon/in show perspective.

You can come up with tortured in-universe reasons for virtually anything to happen. But to judge the value of a work of fiction, you need to ask if the plot lines contain holes, if the story has sensible continuity, and if the characters are consistent and developed past the archetype stage.

 

[The_Baroness]

Personally I wouldn't like it if it were a simple case of DSC having to go back and put right what once went wrong.

I agree. They should have done with Archer.

 

[Uhura's Song]

I hope time travel is not the answer.

I do think that with Disco's knowledge of the cloaks, the Klingon's #1 advantage will be nullified.

L'Rell & Tyler/Voq should play a role. If Star Fleet won't, I am sure MU Georgiou would happily interrogate them.

MU Georgiou will play a role.
-------

Pu Stamets injected himself with Tardigrade DNA to become a navigator. If they do not have any more, then that option is not open for anyone else.

 

[pst]

if they're even in the prime universe at all...

the 20% number seems to be low enough for the producers to hedge their bets and say this "defeat" isn't total enough to be a violation of continuity. and since we all know the war will eventually be won, it's simply a momentary defeat.

no time travel necessary.

 

[Tuskin38]

Tyler/Voq

Voq is probably dead.

 

[Galaxy]

There was the odd line in TOS where McCoy says that Vulcan was conquered. This may be a way to make some sense of that if Vulcan was, at least temporarily, conquered by Klingons.

Does anyone have a clear picture of that war map? Seemed to me that the front line was close to Earth, which might imply that Vulcan has fallen.

 

[pst]

There was the odd line in TOS where McCoy says that Vulcan conquered. This may be a way to make some sense of that if Vulcan was, at least temporarily, conquered by Klingons.

Does anyone have a clear picture of that war map? Seemed to me that the front line was close to Earth, which might imply that Vulcan has fallen.

the before:

and after:

hard to get a handle on how much of the alpha and beta quadrants we're seeing...

 

[Galaxy]

Thanks for that. Looking at how that progresses, it would seem that they are still quite some distance away from Earth, and Vulcan, if my comparison with "Star Trek: Star Charts" is correct, which shows Earth, and Vulcan being much "higher" up alongside the Romulan Empire.

 

[SJGardner]

The fact that apparently 20% of Federation territory was conquered doesn't mean much unless we figure out what exactly lies in that territory. If it has a few sparsely-populated, recently colonized worlds, backwater outposts with the occasional Starbase, it's not as big a loss as it seems at first, and it would also be just as hard for the Klingons to secure, if not harder. Similarly with 33% of Starfleet, we don't exactly know what kind of ships they've lost and how the remainder's fighting potential looks like. The Connies were probably all spared, but losing hundreds of old Daedalus or Walker class vessels could have ramped up the numbers really quickly.

 

[Galaxy]

The fact that apparently 20% of Federation territory was conquered doesn't mean much unless we figure out what exactly lies in that territory. If it has a few sparsely-populated, recently colonized worlds, backwater outposts with the occasional Starbase, it's not as big a loss as it seems at first...

My best guess:

Green circle is Earth. Original map taken from "Star Trek Star Charts" by Geoffrey Mandel. The Disco people seem to reference this book for their maps.

 

[SJGardner]

My best guess:

I love that book. I know the production artists used it as a reference and also that they moved the Alpha-Beta border to the right in the chart compared to the original. The only question is how much they intended the map would be readable, of course. I tend to regard it as an actual representation of the border region, even if it doesn't canonize Star Charts by any means.

If I remember correctly, only stars whose names are written in light blue as opposed to white are actual Federation members though. And of course, this map portrays the mid-to-late 24th century borders.

One tidbit that comes to mind, the star almost directly below the "+" sign labelled "S.S. Kobayashi Maru Lost". It's Archanis (the sector is even labeled on the zoomed-in Klingon-Federation border map). Maybe Gowron's claim to the sector will come from the front lines they reached in this war?

 

[Romulan_spy]

There was the odd line in TOS where McCoy says that Vulcan was conquered. This may be a way to make some sense of that if Vulcan was, at least temporarily, conquered by Klingons.

It is also possible that Vulcan was conquered by an alien race way back in Vulcan history, long before the Federation.

 

[Shawnster]

Of course there's a way to win the war - particularly when you consider that according to the trailer, only 20% of the Federation has been occupied. The problem is squaring it with canon:

1. How was 20% of the Federation occupied, without it ever being mentioned in TOS?
2. How was the Mirror Universe kept a secret?
3. How was the mycelial network kept a secret?

The easiest way out of all of this is, unfortunately, a reset.

That said, I have no confidence that the writers are concerned with these issues whatsoever, so I'm not betting on one.

As noted above....

1. McCoy commented about Vulcan being conquered. Even if we ignore that, the question is why should it be mentioned again? Do contemporary programs set in any country make reference to past conquests? When was the last time a current TV show mentioned lands held by the former Soviet Union or that 11 Southern States seceded from the Union in 1861?

2. Ultra Top Secret Classified. Same way Talos IV was kept a secret. Only ones who know about it are the DISCO crew and whomever they report to.

3. Was it? If it's rendered inaccessible then there is simply no need to ever mention it again. Do we spend much time today talking about oil or gas wells that dry up? Source dried up, move on. No need to talk about what was.