Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate timelin

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

"Surely some of Voyager must be in a different universe, too.

Not at all, we frequently saw Voyager at FTL turning left, sometime right (and sometimes both) during various episodes. In addition Tom Paris, also frequently, was shown not to know exactly what he was talking about.

No separate universe needed, Paris was an idiot through-out the series. It's the way the character was consistently written.

Nope. Janeway, Paris and the entire senior staff were using it as the basis of their plan. Within the context of that episode, he and the rest of the Voyagers were 100% correct. It was inconsistant writing, breaking the larger continuity of Star Trek. It can't co-exist with the rest of the franchise.

There are countless other examples. Trek's continuity is an illusion. I just suspend my disbelief and play along with the current writer/director's vision of it - because you really will end up with one episode per universe if you get picky.

 

[Gojira]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

One of the ways I have begun to approach the incongruities within the franchise and the different types of time travel and parallel universe theories is to see that the laws of physics are different according to the type of method used in time travel or going form one universe to the next.

In other words maybe there is such a randomness to it all.

You can travel in a linear fashion in time within your own universe or you can jump from one universe to another or jump back in for between both time and parallel universes.

It is the only explanation that will keep my head from exploding and still be able to enjoy the franchise.

 

[Vanyel]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

Janeway: Tom, what's the first thing they teach you about maneuvering at warp?
Tom: "Faster than light, no left or right." When possible, maintain a linear trajectory. Course corrections could fracture the hull.

I always thought that it was the nature of the situation that had Tom say what he did. It was the first thing taught to pilots since it's another way of saying the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Once a trainee got flying at warp in a straight line down, then they'd learn how to go left, right, up, down, parallel park all at warp. And do it safely.

Anyway the situation called for them to be able to navigate as quickly as they could through a tight field of "vacuoles". Normally long range sensors give the pilot plenty of time to change course. The vacuoles were too close together for a pilot to change course at warp thus forcing a ship to go through at impulse. The plotted course had many sharp turns, which could also be a reason they had to drop out of warp to turn. They had to make about 200 course corrections, that's 200 chances for Tom to drop out of warp a little too late. Voyager's computer was sophisticated enough to be be pre-programed with an exact course and the right times to drop out of warp, change course and jump back to warp.

The writers could have easily explained it, by saying the vacuoles were too close together for any pilot to get through it at warp (except maybe Data, but even he would have to look over the field and plot a course before he started.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

I invoke Brooks' Law, "They are the writers, you are the audience. They outrank you."

Let me guess, conceive of by a writer? Ultimately the consumer decides the validity of the product.

Here's your history assignment: The Producers

The consumer decides the success of the product.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

Another example of broken "old" Trek continuity is phasers. In TOS, we saw wide-beam phaser settings drop groups of people in one shot. In TNG's "Frame of Mind", Riker says that a phaser set to maximum would destroy the entire building. Fast-forward to DS9's "The Seige of AR-558" and phasers are nothing more than puny one-shot, one-target rifles - yet TOS, TNG and DS9 are all supposed to be the same timeline.

No excuses, no contrived workarounds - one crewman cutting down entire armies with one shot from a palm-sized hand phaser wasn't what the writers and directors of DS9 wanted, so they changed it. Simple as that.

That's Star Trek as it really is - not the idealized, glossed-over and censored version that seems to exist in some fans heads. In the Star Trek that we've seen on TV and film for almost 45 years, the STXI timeline can branch off the TOS one in the year 2233 just fine - eccentricities and all.

 

[KJbushway]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

what does this have to do with alternate timelines and parallel universe?

 

[SD70ACe]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

I think that all alternate timelines are parallel universes, but not all parallel universes are alternate timelines.

Correct.

Easy examples:

Star Trek XI and the stuff in "Parallels" are an alternate timelines that are parallel to the "prime" timeline. They're all strictly related to one another in that at some point in the past, events were different.

However, there's also the Marvel Universe. And the DC Universe. (And within that, the anti-matter universe with planets like Qward.) None of those have any temporal connection to one another, yet they're all parallel.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

what does this have to do with alternate timelines and parallel universe?

It's about where the line between a continuity error (either deliberate retcon or stupid goof) and "It's different from before so it must be a parallel universe" is.

T'Girl and others were saying STXI is an unrelated-to-TOS parallel universe (despite what's actually said in the movie) because of a few minor changes were made to Trek's world by JJ Abrams and Bad Robot. I'm pointing out that many such changes have been made to Star Trek in the past, and since they didn't constitute an unrelated parallel universe then, these don't now.

 

[Myasishchev]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

That's a pretty big change to make after a single ship is destroyed by another (big) single ship that completely disappears. As shown in previous Trek, it's not that unusual for Starfleet to lose ships and personnel. After a (somewhat) similar attack in Doomsday Machine, the Federation council didn't apparently dissolve.

Pike, an educated man, clearly states that the Federation (and not Starfleet) is a peacekeeping armada. It's easier and simpler to believe that the parallel Federation was such from it's conception, rather than the prime Federation made this dramatic change from it's previous state. That the Federation's enormous populace would permit this level of change, again after a single event, is incomprehensible.

Personally, I always liked the idea that the UFP wasn't a unitary government until the 2270s or so, more like a NATO than a USA, or even an EU, which would be in line with Pike's comments.

Anyway, parallel universes and alternate timelines are the same thing, unless you're using some non-standard definition of parallel universe which includes stuff like "universes" beyond the cosmological horizon. Since those are boring--they're basically the same thing as more space, except really-really far away--I'd prefer parallel universe universe be defined under its use in MWI terminology, which is a universe which occupies the same space but has become causally disconnected and has a different history. "Alternate timeline" and "parallel universe" are identical under this definition.

 

[KJbushway]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

Under that definition, being the exact words. Alternate timelines can happen within parallel universes, so they can't exactly be the same thing. They sound the same but if you think about it, its the degree that separates them.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Is there a diference between a parallel universe and alternate tim

That's a pretty big change

Personally, I always liked the idea that the UFP wasn't a unitary government until the 2270s or so, more like a NATO than a USA, or even an EU, which would be in line with Pike's comments.

Well it is kind of silly to think that a growing interstellar alliance like the Federation would be exactly the same through-out it's existence. Just don't believe you're going to radically reorganize the place after yet another routine starship lose.

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I do feel that the Mirror Universe is different than either a alternate or a parallel universe.

The mirror and the prime universe would seem to be joined, to be interactive with each other, rather than the mirror having "split off" from the prime at some point in the past.

They're the "evil" version of us, and we're the "good" version of them. But there really isn't two separate universes in this case. There is, from a certain way of looking at it, just one universe, but with two sides.