Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Universe?

[Cyke101]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Two and a half years if you go by Decker's comeback to Kirk.

Nah, they moved stuff. Toned down the colors and added things. The even changed the chairs!!!!!

Alt universe is all the explanation you need.

Yep. Two and a half years to explain a refit is much simpler than two and a half years to explain why the aesthetic was so drastic compared to TOS. It's like finding the interiors of an old wooden ship from the 1800s overhauled into today's computerized, gunmetal gray Navy vessels. Such major aesthetic changes only happen in the military over the course of decades, not two and a half years.

It was 9 years. It was never said in TMP that only 2 years had passed since TOS only that kirk hadn't logged in a star hour in 2.5 years. It was correctly stated in TWOK that Khan had tried taking over the Enterprise 15 years before. Do you honestly think they expected us to believe that 13 years had passed from TMP to TWOK?

Yes, it was said to be at least two years by Decker's dialogue. Additionally, the end of the 5 year mission was 2270 (5 years after the start of the show), and the refit took 18 months, which started immediately as soon as Kirk returned the ship back to Earth. The ship we saw was fresh from that refit process. Ergo, it definitely wasn't 9 years. 9 years may have passed in real-world time, but NOT in-continuity time.

You're under the impression that the passage of real world time = continuity time, but that's rarely been the case. But even then, even if it *was* a 9 year passage of time, that's still not enough time for such drastic stylistic/aesthetic changes in-universe. Consider that the bridges for Voyager and Defiant are much closer to the Enterprise-D aesthetically than the TMP bridge ever was to TOS; or, in real world examples, the space shuttle cockpits and Navy bridges remain stylistically the same they've been for the past few decades. The real world answer is because the studio could pump in a movie-budget into the sets, so they'd be more complicated looking and more in line with sci-fi of the day; and why wouldn't they? If they have the money, they'll use it, and rightfully so.

And there's nothing in the dialogue that indicates 9 years had passed since TOS.

We also know that at least a decade has passed between TMP to TWOK: for one thing, the vintage of wine that McCoy brought was from 2283. And that's comparing the canon fact that Enterprise returned in 2270 and the refit was 18 months but still not done by the time of V'Ger.

So to reiterate:
2265: ship's 5 year mission begins
2270: end of 5 year mission. The refit process begins as soon as Enterprise returns. Kirk becomes admiral.
Early 2270s, between 2271 - 2273: V'Ger crisis (the refit lasts for 18 months; the ship isn't ready when she launches; Decker notes the 2 yrs)
mid-2280s: Khan

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Yep. Two and a half years to explain a refit is much simpler than two and a half years to explain why the aesthetic was so drastic compared to TOS. It's like finding the interiors of an old wooden ship from the 1800s overhauled into today's computerized, gunmetal gray Navy vessels. Such major aesthetic changes only happen in the military over the course of decades, not two and a half years.

It was 9 years. It was never said in TMP that only 2 years had passed since TOS only that kirk hadn't logged in a star hour in 2.5 years. It was correctly stated in TWOK that Khan had tried taking over the Enterprise 15 years before. Do you honestly think they expected us to believe that 13 years had passed from TMP to TWOK?

Yes, it was said to be at least two years by Decker's dialogue. Additionally, the end of the 5 year mission was 2270 (5 years after the start of the show), and the refit took 18 months, which started immediately as soon as Kirk returned the ship back to Earth. The ship we saw was fresh from that refit process. Ergo, it definitely wasn't 9 years. 9 years may have passed in real-world time, but NOT in-continuity time.

You're under the impression that the passage of real world time = continuity time, but that's rarely been the case. But even then, even if it *was* a 9 year passage of time, that's still not enough time for such drastic stylistic/aesthetic changes in-universe. Consider that the bridges for Voyager and Defiant are much closer to the Enterprise-D aesthetically than the TMP bridge ever was to TOS; or, in real world examples, the space shuttle cockpits and Navy bridges remain stylistically the same they've been for the past few decades. The real world answer is because the studio could pump in a movie-budget into the sets, so they'd be more complicated looking and more in line with sci-fi of the day; and why wouldn't they? If they have the money, they'll use it, and rightfully so.

And there's nothing in the dialogue that indicates 9 years had passed since TOS.

We also know that at least a decade has passed between TMP to TWOK: for one thing, the vintage of wine that McCoy brought was from 2283. And that's comparing the canon fact that Enterprise returned in 2270 and the refit was 18 months but still not done by the time of V'Ger.

So to reiterate:
2265: ship's 5 year mission begins
2270: end of 5 year mission. The refit process begins as soon as Enterprise returns. Kirk becomes admiral.
Early 2270s, between 2271 - 2273: V'Ger crisis (the refit lasts for 18 months; the ship isn't ready when she launches; Decker notes the 2 yrs)
mid-2280s: Khan

I don't seem to recall that the refit took pace after the 5 year mission and that only 2 years had passed since Kirk was Captain. He sure aged a lot in 2 years and Spock even more so.
As I recall at time of the movie ST fans figured the 2 years meant Kirk hadn't been in Space since the 5 year mission and only 2 years had passed since the end of the mission. It was all just conjecture and never confirmed. Kirk could easily has been on other ships during some of the 9 years a visiting admiral or other type assignments but in the last 2 strictly sat at a desk. The only real thing that had changed from TMP to TWOK were the uniforms and that could easily have been changed in 2 or 3 years. You are using the TMP enterprise to justify how the enterprise was so different in ST09 but it doesn't explain how the Kelvin had so much of the same technology as the Enterprise such as the newer viewscreen and several other bridge component designs. The Kelvin should have looked TOS style in some design and coloring or at least something that might have evolved to it. The real reason was that the producers just figured newer fans and older fans of TOS wouldn't care(Which many don't and that's their right). I am just a sticker for continuity details especially ones that could easily have been remedied.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

You are using the TMP enterprise to justify how the enterprise was so different in ST09 but it doesn't explain how the Kelvin had so much of the same technology as the Enterprise such as the newer viewscreen and several other bridge component designs.

Of course it does - in Universe A, the bridge windows and other doohickeys were dropped, but in Universe B they were continued. Different designers, evolving technology in different directions.

Take a look at Enterprise NX-01, which has a lot of design elements (external and internal) which would be dropped for the TOS incarnation of the Enterprise, then reappear on the Refit Enterprise, Excelsior, Akira and Defiant classes 100 and 200 years later. Same explanation.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I don't seem to recall that the refit took pace after the 5 year mission and that only 2 years had passed since Kirk was Captain. He sure aged a lot in 2 years and Spock even more so.
As I recall at time of the movie ST fans figured the 2 years meant Kirk hadn't been in Space since the 5 year mission and only 2 years had passed since the end of the mission. It was all just conjecture and never confirmed. Kirk could easily has been on other ships during some of the 9 years a visiting admiral or other type assignments but in the last 2 strictly sat at a desk.

I think there is a bit of conjecture in the two-and-a-half years. But, then we have to agree that it is normal for every single officer to go up only one rank in that nine year period. McCoy and Scott go from Lieutenant Commander to full Commander, Uhura and Sulu go from Lieutenant to Lt. Commander (which would require Sulu to jump from Lt. Cmdr. to Captain in 2.5 years per TWOK deleted material) and Chekov goes from Ensign to Lieutenant. Only Kirk goes up more than one rank, skipping over Fleet Captain and Commodore directly to Rear Admiral.

Though even nine years isn't an easy out for why the aesthetics of the universe changed radically. With time travel in Star Trek (2009), we have a twenty-five year window for them to change yet you don't seem to believe that is possible.

For me, someone has to come up with a better reason than aesthetics to buy into nine years passing instead of two-and-a-half.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I don't seem to recall that the refit took pace after the 5 year mission and that only 2 years had passed since Kirk was Captain. He sure aged a lot in 2 years and Spock even more so.
As I recall at time of the movie ST fans figured the 2 years meant Kirk hadn't been in Space since the 5 year mission and only 2 years had passed since the end of the mission. It was all just conjecture and never confirmed. Kirk could easily has been on other ships during some of the 9 years a visiting admiral or other type assignments but in the last 2 strictly sat at a desk.

I think there is a bit of conjecture in the two-and-a-half years. But, then we have to agree that it is normal for every single officer to go up only one rank in that nine year period. McCoy and Scott go from Lieutenant Commander to full Commander, Uhura and Sulu go from Lieutenant to Lt. Commander (which would require Sulu to jump from Lt. Cmdr. to Captain in 2.5 years per TWOK deleted material) and Chekov goes from Ensign to Lieutenant. Only Kirk goes up more than one rank, skipping over Fleet Captain and Commodore directly to Rear Admiral.

Though even nine years isn't an easy out for why the aesthetics of the universe changed radically. With time travel in Star Trek (2009), we have a twenty-five year window for them to change yet you don't seem to believe that is possible.

For me, someone has to come up with a better reason than aesthetics to buy into nine years passing instead of two-and-a-half.

Ok heres my pitch. In the TOS ep "The Menagerie" we see how the Enterprise looked when it was basically new. Its hallways, quarters, monitors were very different as well as the more subdued colors on the bridge(Which were actually very much like the TMP bridge). By the time we get to Kirks reign in his 5 year mission the ship has gone through its slight and sometimes not so slight interior changes. We see the enterprise in Kirks 5 year mission at the end of its run with most of its original exterior and some of its interior intact. So by the end of the 5 year mission the Enterprise is due for a complete overhaul as well as the other ships that we saw during the show. If we go with the 2.5 year timeline(Which I think is wrong going by the age and look of the crew in TMP, Yeah I know books and fandom websites have said only 2.5 years had passed but most of that was based on a few lines of misconstrued dialogue imo.) we can say that the refits to the ships and starbases were in the planning stages and probably even going on during TOS when the Enterprise was away from earth. That makes sense and could definitely work since for most of the series the Enterprise is on its own and we see little only a tiny fraction of Starbases and ships that Starfleet owns.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Ok heres my pitch. In the TOS ep "The Menagerie" we see how the Enterprise looked when it was basically new. Its hallways, quarters, monitors were very different as well as the more subdued colors on the bridge(Which were actually very much like the TMP bridge).

Not even "basically new" if we go with a 2245 launch date.

By the time we get to Kirks reign in his 5 year mission the ship has gone through its slight and sometimes not so slight interior changes. We see the enterprise in Kirks 5 year mission at the end of its run with most of its original exterior and some of its interior intact. So by the end of the 5 year mission the Enterprise is due for a complete overhaul as well as the other ships that we saw during the show. If we go with the 2.5 year timeline(Which I think is wrong going by the age and look of the crew in TMP, Yeah I know books and fandom websites have said only 2.5 years had passed but most of that was based on a few lines of misconstrued dialogue imo.) we can say that the refits to the ships and starbases were in the planning stages and probably even going on during TOS when the Enterprise was away from earth. That makes sense and could definitely work since for most of the series the Enterprise is on its own and we see little only a tiny fraction of Starbases and ships that Starfleet owns.

Problem being, we see no hint of any new technology in TOS nor any TOS technology in TMP. Which would be one hell of a coincidence. The aesthetic has totally changed.

But... you could apply any of the above to the Abramsverse to cover the issues you have with the differences in aesthetics. While they've changed some of the shapes, there are definite nods to TOS in the Abrams films. From the uniforms to Kelvin communicators to the shuttles we see to an updated version of the iconic captain's chair.

Though I think the creator intent is two-and-half years since the end of TOS. The "five years out there" wouldn't amount to a hill of beans if Kirk hadn't sat in the captain's chair for a decade. Starfleet had no one who had sat in the captain's chair more recently than Kirk? What exactly did they do with the Enterprise during the six-and-a-half years between the end of TOS and TMP? Why would someone who hadn't sat in the captain's chair for nearly a decade have so much weight in the assignment of Enterprise's newest commanding officer? Surely there would have been others during that 6.5 years? Others that brought the ship home safely as well. Then you have the oddity of the entire command staff each only getting one promotion over a fourteen year period.

You're definitely free to interpret things however you wish, it's the beauty of fiction. From my view, nine years simply doesn't make sense.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Ok heres my pitch. In the TOS ep "The Menagerie" we see how the Enterprise looked when it was basically new. Its hallways, quarters, monitors were very different as well as the more subdued colors on the bridge(Which were actually very much like the TMP bridge).

Not even "basically new" if we go with a 2245 launch date.

By the time we get to Kirks reign in his 5 year mission the ship has gone through its slight and sometimes not so slight interior changes. We see the enterprise in Kirks 5 year mission at the end of its run with most of its original exterior and some of its interior intact. So by the end of the 5 year mission the Enterprise is due for a complete overhaul as well as the other ships that we saw during the show. If we go with the 2.5 year timeline(Which I think is wrong going by the age and look of the crew in TMP, Yeah I know books and fandom websites have said only 2.5 years had passed but most of that was based on a few lines of misconstrued dialogue imo.) we can say that the refits to the ships and starbases were in the planning stages and probably even going on during TOS when the Enterprise was away from earth. That makes sense and could definitely work since for most of the series the Enterprise is on its own and we see little only a tiny fraction of Starbases and ships that Starfleet owns.

Problem being, we see no hint of any new technology in TOS nor any TOS technology in TMP. Which would be one hell of a coincidence. The aesthetic has totally changed.

But... you could apply any of the above to the Abramsverse to cover the issues you have with the differences in aesthetics. While they've changed some of the shapes, there are definite nods to TOS in the Abrams films. From the uniforms to Kelvin communicators to the shuttles we see to an updated version of the iconic captain's chair.

Though I think the creator intent is two-and-half years since the end of TOS. The "five years out there" wouldn't amount to a hill of beans if Kirk hadn't sat in the captain's chair for a decade. Starfleet had no one who had sat in the captain's chair more recently than Kirk? What exactly did they do with the Enterprise during the six-and-a-half years between the end of TOS and TMP? Why would someone who hadn't sat in the captain's chair for nearly a decade have so much weight in the assignment of Enterprise's newest commanding officer? Surely there would have been others during that 6.5 years? Others that brought the ship home safely as well. Then you have the oddity of the entire command staff each only getting one promotion over a fourteen year period.

You're definitely free to interpret things however you wish, it's the beauty of fiction. From my view, nine years simply doesn't make sense.

Correct most of us interpret these things differently. My original proposition was that the NuTrek universe should have been a alternate universe that Nero and Spock traveled to and then subsequently changed its past. Basically a alternate universe that was already different from Prime Trek(In terms of technologies etc.). The problem I have is that since they decided to go for a alternate universe that was created by time travel and everything was supposedly exactly the same to TOS up to the point of the Kelvin exploding we should have seen something that smacked of the TOS prime universe. It was just to different even before the Kelvin was destroyed. Also I still have a hard time believing that Starfleet techs threw out all their original plans for the enterprise and basically used the Narda scans(filmmakers explanation after the film was released) and drew up completely different plans for the enterprise right down to the look of the ship.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Correct most of us interpret these things differently. My original proposition was that the NuTrek universe should have been a alternate universe that Nero and Spock traveled to and then subsequently changed its past. Basically a alternate universe that was already different from Prime Trek(In terms of technologies etc.). The problem I have is that since they decided to go for a alternate universe that was created by time travel and everything was supposedly exactly the same to TOS up to the point of the Kelvin exploding we should have seen something that smacked of the TOS prime universe. It was just to different even before the Kelvin was destroyed. Also I still have a hard time believing that Starfleet techs threw out all their original plans for the enterprise and basically used the Narda scans(filmmakers explanation after the film was released) and drew up completely different plans for the enterprise right down to the look of the ship.

I'm still trying to understand why there would not be changes. First of all, for me, I see the Kelvin as a natural outgrowth from the NX-01 and Earth Starfleet, and making the transition to the UFP. In addition, it (or the design of it) likely saw action in the Earth-Romulan War, which would also inform the Kelvin's design.

the nuEnterprise is also one that is constructed far more with combat in mind, because Starfleet recognized the need to retool their designs to address the threat.

I don't think they through out their original plans for the Constitution class, or the designs, but there is are some visual similarities. However, the nuBridge definitely feels more like a command center, not unlike nuBSG (to a point) or the Defiant bridge. It definitely is a place where the captain of a ship can receive all the data he needs to make the best decision. Knowledge is power. and all that.

Beyond that, I think that it has enough visual and aesthetic similarities to be in the same universe, but that this Starfleet lived in the shadow of a constant threat and made choices based upon that fact.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

The problem I have is that since they decided to go for a alternate universe that was created by time travel and everything was supposedly exactly the same to TOS up to the point of the Kelvin exploding we should have seen something that smacked of the TOS prime universe.

We do in my view. The Kelvin communicators, the shuttles.

It was just to different even before the Kelvin was destroyed.

I guess another question percolates in my mind: what is the period twenty-five years before TOS suppose to look like? Do we hold Abrams to gooseneck viewers on the arm of the captain's chair and giant CRT viewscreen?

Also I still have a hard time believing that Starfleet techs threw out all their original plans for the enterprise and basically used the Narda scans(filmmakers explanation after the film was released) and drew up completely different plans for the enterprise right down to the look of the ship.

We only know that the Constitution-class project, and by extension the Enterprise, were delayed by a decade. Apparently in cut material, we see a very similar type of starship was in service. Obviously though, it would have a different class name.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Here are the helm consoles of the Enterprise NX-01 (2151), USS Kelvin (2233), Enterprise-1701 (2260's), Refit Enterprise (2273) and AU Enterprise (2258). I don't see any design evolution, just different artists reinterpreting pretty much the same thing.

 

[Mytran]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Sorry, but is that a STEERING WHEEL on the bottom left of the NX console? I never noticed that before!

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Sorry, but is that a STEERING WHEEL on the bottom left of the NX console? I never noticed that before!

I think someone may have photoshopped that on there. We've seen the console from side views in the episodes and I've never noticed a steering wheel.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Sorry, but is that a STEERING WHEEL on the bottom left of the NX console? I never noticed that before!

I think someone may have photoshopped that on there. We've seen the console from side views in the episodes and I've never noticed a steering wheel.

Believe it not it was actually there. My brother and I thought it was funny that they has a steering wheel on the helm. I think it disappeared in later season though.

 

[Mytran]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Didn't Travis once use a single joystick to steer the entire ship through a minefield? Maybe he was also using the steering wheel (just out of shot) with his knees.

Not that I would ever drive like that, of course

 

[JoeP]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Sorry, but is that a STEERING WHEEL on the bottom left of the NX console? I never noticed that before!

I think someone may have photoshopped that on there. We've seen the console from side views in the episodes and I've never noticed a steering wheel.

Definitely not photoshopped. From Doug Drexler's FB page, which has a TON of behind the scenes photos.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Sorry, but is that a STEERING WHEEL on the bottom left of the NX console? I never noticed that before!

I think someone may have photoshopped that on there. We've seen the console from side views in the episodes and I've never noticed a steering wheel.

Definitely not photoshopped. From Doug Drexler's FB page, which has a TON of behind the scenes photos.

Excellent picture of the steering wheel. My brother and I laughed when we first saw it. This helm does not look more advanced than the TOS helm imo. It actually looks like a console from a 21st century airplane.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I think someone may have photoshopped that on there. We've seen the console from side views in the episodes and I've never noticed a steering wheel.

Definitely not photoshopped. From Doug Drexler's FB page, which has a TON of behind the scenes photos.

Excellent picture of the steering wheel. My brother and I laughed when we first saw it. This helm does not look more advanced than the TOS helm imo. It actually looks like a console from a 21st century airplane.

There are similarities

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Definitely not photoshopped. From Doug Drexler's FB page, which has a TON of behind the scenes photos.

Excellent picture of the steering wheel. My brother and I laughed when we first saw it. This helm does not look more advanced than the TOS helm imo. It actually looks like a console from a 21st century airplane.

There are similarities

That's what I have been telling people. The bridge of the NX-01 looked much more primitive than the TOS NCC-1701 bridge

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Excellent picture of the steering wheel. My brother and I laughed when we first saw it. This helm does not look more advanced than the TOS helm imo. It actually looks like a console from a 21st century airplane.

There are similarities

That's what I have been telling people. The bridge of the NX-01 looked much more primitive than the TOS NCC-1701 bridge

I wonder what he has in the DVD cases above the steering wheel.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

There are similarities

That's what I have been telling people. The bridge of the NX-01 looked much more primitive than the TOS NCC-1701 bridge

I wonder what he has in the DVD cases above the steering wheel.

DVD case?