Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Universe?

[mswood]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Everything took a different path. Buildings, clothing, everyones character traits, all technology. I find it hard to believe that not one friggin thing stayed the same. They should have made it a alternate universe with changes. They should not have said the NuTrek was born from the Star Trek universe.

I think the TOS to TMP aesthetic transition is more shocking than anything we saw in the two Abrams films. To be perfectly honest.

The transition from TOS to the Abrams films was way more shocking. THe changes in TMP were explained it. The enterprise was refitted. We still had the same basic technology and feel to the ship. Actually the enterprise in TMP has a close resemblance to the way the enterprise looked in The Cage(I.E. Interior coloring and close cropped hallways.)

Actually no it doesn't there is huge amount of changes not just sets on the Enterprise that separate TOS and the Motion Picture.

Where is the camp over the top humor, it's utterly gone. Soft focus on women, well thats gone. Use of bright primary colors on everything, just not the ship, well thats gone everywhere not just on Enterprise. Characters are played much smaller int eh Motion Picture. In OS, they were Big, overly theatrical. Not so with the Motion Picture.

The JJ films are far closer to TOS in style, performance, and mood then The Motion Picture. It's not even close.

AS for stating that technology is way to advanced at the point of the Kelvin? How could any reasoned person make such a statement. We saw one type of vessel from Starlet in all of TOS. 1 Type. Does that logically mean all other types of vessel at that time and before where the same? Thats highly unlikely.

 

[martok2112]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I think the TOS to TMP aesthetic transition is more shocking than anything we saw in the two Abrams films. To be perfectly honest.

The transition from TOS to the Abrams films was way more shocking. THe changes in TMP were explained it. The enterprise was refitted. We still had the same basic technology and feel to the ship. Actually the enterprise in TMP has a close resemblance to the way the enterprise looked in The Cage(I.E. Interior coloring and close cropped hallways.)

Actually no it doesn't there is huge amount of changes not just sets on the Enterprise that separate TOS and the Motion Picture.

Where is the camp over the top humor, it's utterly gone. Soft focus on women, well thats gone. Use of bright primary colors on everything, just not the ship, well thats gone everywhere not just on Enterprise. Characters are played much smaller int eh Motion Picture. In OS, they were Big, overly theatrical. Not so with the Motion Picture.

The JJ films are far closer to TOS in style, performance, and mood then The Motion Picture. It's not even close.

AS for stating that technology is way to advanced at the point of the Kelvin? How could any reasoned person make such a statement. We saw one type of vessel from Starlet in all of TOS. 1 Type. Does that logically mean all other types of vessel at that time and before where the same? Thats highly unlikely.

Aye, agreed, mswood. Focusing strictly on the tech for the moment, the Kelvin is the example of early 23rd Century tech as enivisoned in 2009 as opposed to the Enterprise in 1966. Futurism changes with each decade. The Star Trek of 1979 looks almost radically different from Star Trek of 1969. It is not unrecognizable, but it does look quite different....and, this is the result of 18 months of redesigning and refitting the Enterprise in-story. Kirk had been Chief of SF Ops for 2 and a half years in-story. And as I've always understood it, Kirk received that commission almost immediately after successfully returning the Enterprise from her first 5 year mission.....so in story terms, not a lot of time had passed.....perhaps only about 2 years, since it would seem that the refit efforts of the Enterprise ran concurrent with Kirk's appointment as CSFOps. In the ten years it took to bring Star Trek back (1969-1979), only two years of story time had passed, but the vision of the future in our real world changed drastically.

To those who complain about tech sophistication and advencement: So the Kelvin looks more advanced than the old 1966 Enterprise. So what? That was corrected when we saw the Enterprise as envisioned in 2009. That Enterprise looked appropriately advanced by at least a couple of decades in-story. That is where the focus is. One cannot complain that the old Enterprise looks outdated just because the Kelvin (an older piece of tech in-story) looks more advanced than the old Enterprise. Truth is, the appearance of the old Enterprise is outdated by standards of futurism in the current day.

Speaking from a tribute standpoint though, the tech as envisioned in 1966-1969 certainly gave inspiration and rise to a lot of the real-world tech we have today (and now take almost foregranted.).

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

The transition from TOS to the Abrams films was way more shocking. THe changes in TMP were explained it. The enterprise was refitted. We still had the same basic technology and feel to the ship. Actually the enterprise in TMP has a close resemblance to the way the enterprise looked in The Cage(I.E. Interior coloring and close cropped hallways.)

Actually no it doesn't there is huge amount of changes not just sets on the Enterprise that separate TOS and the Motion Picture.

Where is the camp over the top humor, it's utterly gone. Soft focus on women, well thats gone. Use of bright primary colors on everything, just not the ship, well thats gone everywhere not just on Enterprise. Characters are played much smaller int eh Motion Picture. In OS, they were Big, overly theatrical. Not so with the Motion Picture.

The JJ films are far closer to TOS in style, performance, and mood then The Motion Picture. It's not even close.

AS for stating that technology is way to advanced at the point of the Kelvin? How could any reasoned person make such a statement. We saw one type of vessel from Starlet in all of TOS. 1 Type. Does that logically mean all other types of vessel at that time and before where the same? Thats highly unlikely.

Aye, agreed, mswood. Focusing strictly on the tech for the moment, the Kelvin is the example of early 23rd Century tech as enivisoned in 2009 as opposed to the Enterprise in 1966. Futurism changes with each decade. The Star Trek of 1979 looks almost radically different from Star Trek of 1969. It is not unrecognizable, but it does look quite different....and, this is the result of 18 months of redesigning and refitting the Enterprise in-story. Kirk had been Chief of SF Ops for 2 and a half years in-story. And as I've always understood it, Kirk received that commission almost immediately after successfully returning the Enterprise from her first 5 year mission.....so in story terms, not a lot of time had passed.....perhaps only about 2 years, since it would seem that the refit efforts of the Enterprise ran concurrent with Kirk's appointment as CSFOps. In the ten years it took to bring Star Trek back (1969-1979), only two years of story time had passed, but the vision of the future in our real world changed drastically.

To those who complain about tech sophistication and advencement: So the Kelvin looks more advanced than the old 1966 Enterprise. So what? That was corrected when we saw the Enterprise as envisioned in 2009. That Enterprise looked appropriately advanced by at least a couple of decades in-story. That is where the focus is. One cannot complain that the old Enterprise looks outdated just because the Kelvin (an older piece of tech in-story) looks more advanced than the old Enterprise. Truth is, the appearance of the old Enterprise is outdated by standards of futurism in the current day.

Speaking from a tribute standpoint though, the tech as envisioned in 1966-1969 certainly gave inspiration and rise to a lot of the real-world tech we have today (and now take almost foregranted.).

Obviously you guys have never seen a department store refit. A store near where I lived has had a refit and it still looks the same in shape and size. Also the escalators are still there but there are lots of changes that make it look like a brand new store. The enterprise changing form TOS to TMP still has the same basic outside structural look(Saucer, Nacelles) and the bridge itself still retains a lot of the TOS bridge but with updated computers and coloring. Like the refit in any store they can look drastically different but still retain something of their original look. The NuStar NuTrek Enterprise did not retain anything from the TOS era look even though its a few years before Kirk took over and was commanded by Pike in TOS. A universe that supposedly was a offshoot of TOS because of one ship being destroyed would have retained something of the original universe it came from. They could easily have made a more modern update of the bridge but retain something of the TOS universe to show that not everything had changed. I just don't buy that one ship being destroyed and a few people lost would change everything in the universe to such a drastic point. I mean those people must have all been real important to how the look of the original TOS universe unfolded.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

The enterprise changing form TOS to TMP still has the same basic outside structural look(Saucer, Nacelles) and the bridge itself still retains a lot of the TOS bridge but with updated computers and coloring. Like the refit in any store they can look drastically different but still retain something of their original look. The NuStar NuTrek Enterprise did not retain anything from the TOS era look even though its a few years before Kirk took over and was commanded by Pike in TOS. A universe that supposedly was a offshoot of TOS because of one ship being destroyed would have retained something of the original universe it came from.

But the refit has both a bigger saucer and secondary hull. Behind-the-scenes material indicates there was very little of the actual original Enterprise left.

As far as the Abramsverse Enterprise goes, it is a ship that is constructed thirteen-years later. Likely meaning a different design and engineering team worked on it. And the ship does retain the classic saucer, nacelle and secondary hull configuration, as well as the classic captain's chair (same color scheme) and forward helm and navigation stations setup.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Obviously you guys have never seen a department store refit. A store near where I lived has had a refit and it still looks the same in shape and size. Also the escalators are still there but there are lots of changes that make it look like a brand new store. The enterprise changing form TOS to TMP still has the same basic outside structural look(Saucer, Nacelles) and the bridge itself still retains a lot of the TOS bridge but with updated computers and coloring. Like the refit in any store they can look drastically different but still retain something of their original look. The NuStar NuTrek Enterprise did not retain anything from the TOS era look even though its a few years before Kirk took over and was commanded by Pike in TOS. A universe that supposedly was a offshoot of TOS because of one ship being destroyed would have retained something of the original universe it came from. They could easily have made a more modern update of the bridge but retain something of the TOS universe to show that not everything had changed. I just don't buy that one ship being destroyed and a few people lost would change everything in the universe to such a drastic point. I mean those people must have all been real important to how the look of the original TOS universe unfolded.

I've supervised store refits. I've also seen new stores built from the ground up.

The TMP Enterprise was a new build retaining the basic elements of the original. With a hand wave in universe calling it a refit. Like the '09 they kept the basic shape and redesigned everything. Why? Because 1979 and 2009 aren't 1964.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Actually no it doesn't there is huge amount of changes not just sets on the Enterprise that separate TOS and the Motion Picture.

Where is the camp over the top humor, it's utterly gone. Soft focus on women, well thats gone. Use of bright primary colors on everything, just not the ship, well thats gone everywhere not just on Enterprise. Characters are played much smaller int eh Motion Picture. In OS, they were Big, overly theatrical. Not so with the Motion Picture.

The JJ films are far closer to TOS in style, performance, and mood then The Motion Picture. It's not even close.

AS for stating that technology is way to advanced at the point of the Kelvin? How could any reasoned person make such a statement. We saw one type of vessel from Starlet in all of TOS. 1 Type. Does that logically mean all other types of vessel at that time and before where the same? Thats highly unlikely.

Aye, agreed, mswood. Focusing strictly on the tech for the moment, the Kelvin is the example of early 23rd Century tech as enivisoned in 2009 as opposed to the Enterprise in 1966. Futurism changes with each decade. The Star Trek of 1979 looks almost radically different from Star Trek of 1969. It is not unrecognizable, but it does look quite different....and, this is the result of 18 months of redesigning and refitting the Enterprise in-story. Kirk had been Chief of SF Ops for 2 and a half years in-story. And as I've always understood it, Kirk received that commission almost immediately after successfully returning the Enterprise from her first 5 year mission.....so in story terms, not a lot of time had passed.....perhaps only about 2 years, since it would seem that the refit efforts of the Enterprise ran concurrent with Kirk's appointment as CSFOps. In the ten years it took to bring Star Trek back (1969-1979), only two years of story time had passed, but the vision of the future in our real world changed drastically.

To those who complain about tech sophistication and advencement: So the Kelvin looks more advanced than the old 1966 Enterprise. So what? That was corrected when we saw the Enterprise as envisioned in 2009. That Enterprise looked appropriately advanced by at least a couple of decades in-story. That is where the focus is. One cannot complain that the old Enterprise looks outdated just because the Kelvin (an older piece of tech in-story) looks more advanced than the old Enterprise. Truth is, the appearance of the old Enterprise is outdated by standards of futurism in the current day.

Speaking from a tribute standpoint though, the tech as envisioned in 1966-1969 certainly gave inspiration and rise to a lot of the real-world tech we have today (and now take almost foregranted.).

Obviously you guys have never seen a department store refit. A store near where I lived has had a refit and it still looks the same in shape and size. Also the escalators are still there but there are lots of changes that make it look like a brand new store. The enterprise changing form TOS to TMP still has the same basic outside structural look(Saucer, Nacelles) and the bridge itself still retains a lot of the TOS bridge but with updated computers and coloring. Like the refit in any store they can look drastically different but still retain something of their original look. The NuStar NuTrek Enterprise did not retain anything from the TOS era look even though its a few years before Kirk took over and was commanded by Pike in TOS. A universe that supposedly was a offshoot of TOS because of one ship being destroyed would have retained something of the original universe it came from. They could easily have made a more modern update of the bridge but retain something of the TOS universe to show that not everything had changed. I just don't buy that one ship being destroyed and a few people lost would change everything in the universe to such a drastic point. I mean those people must have all been real important to how the look of the original TOS universe unfolded.

Here's my thing about this point. I hear the discussion point a lot that the Kelvin attack would not be enough to justify all the changes that occurred (Enterprise design, uniforms, etc.). My response to this is two-fold:

First of all, this was not just an attack where people died and that was sad. It was a life altering event, because they were attacked by a Romulan ship, shortly after they just signed a peace treaty with the Romulans. Now, they are afraid the Romulans are reingiting the war and have an advantage. So, its not, "How sad, the Kelvin was lost." It's "The Romulans have attacked without warning, and could attack at any moment. We have to get ready. Bigger ships, better weapons."

Secondly, designs are not static. TOS Enterprise came out of an era that was only starting to have inklings of a possible war with the Klingons, rather than the fear of Romulans attacking, and then the possibility of a war with the Klingons (probably the same war that the Organians forced the peace treaty over in the Prime universe). The Abrams Universe had some events that altered their design sensibilities and emphasis by the ship builders, either from an aesthetic standpoint or from a tactical standpoint. Either way, they made different choices.

A quick point of reference would be the Enterprise D versus the Enterprise E. One is designed for exploration, while the other is clearly a more combat oriented vessel. I think the same could be argued for Prime Enterprise and Abrams Enterprise.

 

[martok2112]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

I've supervised store refits. I've also seen new stores built from the ground up.

The TMP Enterprise was a new build retaining the basic elements of the original. With a hand wave in universe calling it a refit. Like the '09 they kept the basic shape and redesigned everything. Why? Because 1979 and 2009 aren't 1964.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!!!!

Also, very nice post, fireproof!

 

[Rincewiend]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

To my ears it sounds like a traditional time travel method that happens to re-write or erase what happened before.

But they said nothing of erasure.

When it comes to the new movies, all i have to say to pubert and others is:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-d4J3YUQmU[/yt]

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Ok but I honestly feel that's what the bridge looks like. I am not trying to wind people up at all. When the movie came out some reviewers and others liked that the bridge mimicked apple aesthetics. I have no problem with people feeling that or liking it but its not something I felt worked. The bridge is to bright and shiny to really function as something which may have to be used for combat.

I love the bridge. I could easily see all of the screen displays, and everything was laid out in a sensible pattern. To me it was the epitome of the nerve center of the ship.

I mean, I think this is just gorgeous:

Here is a picture from the Defiant from the "In A Mirror Darkly Episode" from Enterprise. I am still looking to find better ones but you can see a monitor panel that is active with diagrams in the background. We never saw that in TOS. Also the monitors above are active and move. The lighting also made the TOS constitution look better. Obviously this was done on a television budget but they could have gone farther in the movie and kept some of the original look.

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/K...58/12/fe/5812fe5f9e95bf393dee13df4739dcf6.jpg

[Converted to link. Pics posted as embedded images should be hosted on your own web space or on an image-sharing account registered to you. - M']

 

[Mudd]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

they could have gone farther in the movie and kept some of the original look.

There was no reason to.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

they could have gone farther in the movie and kept some of the original look.

There was no reason to.

It would have been nice and at least it would seem like some of the aesthetics of the TOS bridge had survived in the alternate universe that was based on it.

Heres a picture with updated graphics for the viewscreen when the mirror characters are using it to locate the gorn on the Defiant. Something we never saw in TOS but the proiducers of this ep added.


http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608011823087355686&pid=1.7

[Converted to link. Images should be hosted on your own web space, not leeched from sites which are not yours.. - M']

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

they could have gone farther in the movie and kept some of the original look.

There was no reason to.

It would have been nice and at least it would seem like some of the aesthetics of the TOS bridge had survived in the alternate universe that was based on it.

Most of it didn't survive TMP, why would it survive in a film made 40 years later? Still the chairs are clearly influenced by TOS. As is the basic layout and shape. You see even more of the TOS aesthetic in the Kelvin and simulator designs.

 

[Mudd]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

You know, all of that stuff is wonderful and I like it but I can't think why anyone new to Star Trek would find it persuasive.

In order for these movies to succeed they had to expand the attraction of Star Trek far beyond the confines of remaining fandom. The appeal of the original TOS designs is strongly nostalgic, and none of the "updates" really modernize it.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

There was no reason to.

It would have been nice and at least it would seem like some of the aesthetics of the TOS bridge had survived in the alternate universe that was based on it.

Most of it didn't survive TMP, why would it survive in a film made 40 years later? Still the chairs are clearly influenced by TOS. As is the basic layout and shape. You see even more of the TOS aesthetic in the Kelvin and simulator designs.

A lot of it survived in TMP. The bridge looked very much the same in design layout. The ship was refit and so was the bridge because 9 years had passed and the refit was explained in the movie.

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

...

Here is a picture from the Defiant from the "In A Mirror Darkly Episode" from Enterprise. I am still looking to find better ones but you can see a monitor panel that is active with diagrams in the background. We never saw that in TOS. Also the monitors above are active and move. The lighting also made the TOS constitution look better. Obviously this was done on a television budget but they could have gone farther in the movie and kept some of the original look.

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/K...58/12/fe/5812fe5f9e95bf393dee13df4739dcf6.jpg

[Converted to link. Pics posted as embedded images should be hosted on your own web space or on an image-sharing account registered to you. - M']

Please remember not to hotlink images from web pages which are not yours unless you have been given permission by the site owner to do so. Using other people's bandwidth to post images is poor web etiquette, so instead you should use an image-sharing account such as Photobucket to post embedded images.

EDIT:

they could have gone farther in the movie and kept some of the original look.

There was no reason to.

It would have been nice and at least it would seem like some of the aesthetics of the TOS bridge had survived in the alternate universe that was based on it.

Heres a picture with updated graphics for the viewscreen when the mirror characters are using it to locate the gorn on the Defiant. Something we never saw in TOS but the proiducers of this ep added.


http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608011823087355686&pid=1.7

[Converted to link. Images should be hosted on your own web space, not leeched from sites which are not yours.. - M']

Same goes for images found in image search engine result sets. Don't hotlink them; use images hosted on a site or page belonging to you.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

You know, all of that stuff is wonderful and I like it but I can't think why anyone new to Star Trek would find it persuasive.

In order for these movies to succeed they had to expand the attraction of Star Trek far beyond the confines of remaining fandom. The appeal of the original TOS designs is strongly nostalgic, and none of the "updates" really modernize it.

This post reminds me of TOS-R. Yeah, the updated graphics and SFX are nice, but for a number of people, they just don't fit the 1960s footage despite the production crew's best intentions. And even then, TOS-R simply isn't going to have the same impact as TOS. Those old models and stiff flights and painted phasers are all part and parcel of the original charm. TOS-R is a nice looking band aid, but a band aid nonetheless, imo.

There are some specific things in the production design of NuTrek that I'd like to change, sure. But in the overall package, they fit what works for the 21st century cinema while retaining enough throwbacks that they're clearly inspired by 60s TOS. And really, there was nothing to stop Abrams from making even more radical designs -- a dark and damp bridge like the Matrix, everyone in black leather uniforms, an Enterprise with four nacelles, lasers instead of phasers, etc. etc. But they made the conscious choice to evoke TOS while trying to keep it as bright and vibrant as they could on a massive budget. And I'm thankful that there's enough callbacks to TOS productionwise that it follows in the spirit of the show.

On a side note, I just rewatched Into Darkness, and they added a Jeffries tube. I noticed that before, but I didn't notice it was more of a TNG/VOY-style tube, not the slanted ones from TOS; this one had grates and an angled door frame. That was a conscious design choice sure, but it was also the crew's way of trying to get in a TNG-era reference into the design as well. And it works for this movie because it's still in keeping with the overall aesthetic. But it's a nice easter egg to acknowledge in some small way the Trek that's beyond TOS (not that they didn't do it already. DS9 had major shoutouts in this movie, and TNG and ENT got a couple licks in as well).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

It would have been nice and at least it would seem like some of the aesthetics of the TOS bridge had survived in the alternate universe that was based on it.

Most of it didn't survive TMP, why would it survive in a film made 40 years later? Still the chairs are clearly influenced by TOS. As is the basic layout and shape. You see even more of the TOS aesthetic in the Kelvin and simulator designs.

A lot of it survived in TMP. The bridge looked very much the same in design layout. The ship was refit and so was the bridge because 9 years had passed and the refit was explained in the movie.

Two and a half years if you go by Decker's comeback to Kirk.

Nah, they moved stuff. Toned down the colors and added things. The even changed the chairs!!!!!

Alt universe is all the explanation you need.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

Most of it didn't survive TMP, why would it survive in a film made 40 years later? Still the chairs are clearly influenced by TOS. As is the basic layout and shape. You see even more of the TOS aesthetic in the Kelvin and simulator designs.

A lot of it survived in TMP. The bridge looked very much the same in design layout. The ship was refit and so was the bridge because 9 years had passed and the refit was explained in the movie.

Two and a half years if you go by Decker's comeback to Kirk.

Nah, they moved stuff. Toned down the colors and added things. The even changed the chairs!!!!!

Alt universe is all the explanation you need.

Yep. Two and a half years to explain a refit is much simpler than two and a half years to explain why the aesthetic was so drastic compared to TOS. It's like finding the interiors of an old wooden ship from the 1800s overhauled into today's computerized, gunmetal gray Navy vessels. Such major aesthetic changes only happen in the military over the course of decades, not two and a half years.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Is The NuTrek Universe A Changed Timeline From The Star Trek Unive

A lot of it survived in TMP. The bridge looked very much the same in design layout. The ship was refit and so was the bridge because 9 years had passed and the refit was explained in the movie.

Two and a half years if you go by Decker's comeback to Kirk.

Nah, they moved stuff. Toned down the colors and added things. The even changed the chairs!!!!!

Alt universe is all the explanation you need.

Yep. Two and a half years to explain a refit is much simpler than two and a half years to explain why the aesthetic was so drastic compared to TOS. It's like finding the interiors of an old wooden ship from the 1800s overhauled into today's computerized, gunmetal gray Navy vessels. Such major aesthetic changes only happen in the military over the course of decades, not two and a half years.

It was 9 years. It was never said in TMP that only 2 years had passed since TOS only that kirk hadn't logged in a star hour in 2.5 years. It was correctly stated in TWOK that Khan had tried taking over the Enterprise 15 years before. Do you honestly think they expected us to believe that 13 years had passed from TMP to TWOK?

 

[TRON JA307020]

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