Is the Luna-class an improvement?
- Thread starter Satyrquaze
- Start date
Actually, they didn't skip just started a group of hull numbers at different times per shipyard.
Well, as we see small starships such as the Danubes receive NCC registries, who's to say that the Danube class was the only runabout type in service or if each starbase, starship, and other Starfleet organizations have at least two to three, then the NCCs should be inflated to the high numbers that we see, especially if Starfleet has at least two to three types of runabout-sized being built.
Saquist
Commodore
No shuttle ever received an NCC before the Danube and none after was ever seen. Support craft like the Danubes and the Scout ship are the only ones we know of. The inflation era of the NCC's happens between the late 23rd century to the early 24th century a period of 50 years the NCC's jumped from 2000 to 20,000 and continued a regular expansion of a 1,000 per year give or take.
I never said shuttles, I said Danube class and other related classes that are mass produced. I'm not going to repeat myself, but a massive amount of support vessels will inflate those NCC registries.
Saquist
Commodore
My point is that we only know about the Danube and the scout.
It could be that the peregrine fighter is considered an NCC but all we can do is guess. So if you look at the registry you'll see the jump in NCC's didn't happened late in the 24th century as you would assume when small warp capable shuttle became common, it happened around the time of the Tomed Incident because from 2293 to 2311 is just 18 years. Of course there is no Federation ship listed at this time...but some years later the USS Ajax is listed as NCC 11574 in the year 2327. Only 16 years after the Tomed Incident. Other than the uncanon USS Ambassador Registry this is the earliest know registry for a 24th century ship.
Also noteworthy is that this Apollo class is the first evidence I've ever found that vulcan ships or non Earth ship had any effect on the registry but note this is some time after the start of the Federation. So it confirms they continued to build ship under starfleet but it also confirms that that they didn't have a considerable effect prior to the 24th century which is when the registry inflation began.
Actually, the Hermes at NCC-10376 and the La Salle at NCC-6237 and the Arcos NCC-6203 were lower.
Saquist
Commodore
The Hermes was seen in the late 24th century operating with Picards blockade against the Romulans. We can't use it because it because it's too late in the 24th century in comparison with the sudden rise of numbers that happened between the 23rd and 24th.
La Salle is after the inflation (anything after NCC 2000 which was late 23rd in 2293) But the that number isn't canon anyway. The same with Arcos. (I wish they just go ahead and make it canon from the encyclopedia since this era of Trek is over)
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Apollo class is non-Earth? Since when?
The registries and class identities of most starships are derived from non-dialogue onscreen resources such as Okudagrams, and have some canonicity in that sense. The identity of the Vulcan vessel T'Pau from "Unification" as an Apollo class one is not one of those, though. We never learn in any episode, movie or other onscreen event what class that ship would have represented. We only learn its name, registry and operating entity (Vulcan National Merchant Fleet) as well as details of its mothballing at Qualor II.
It is only the first Encyclopedia that noncanonically suggests that the T'Pau might have been of Apollo class. But there's nothing to suggest that non-Starfleet (or non-Earth) ships or ship designs would have an influence on the sequence of NCC registries.
Timo Saloniemi
Saquist
Commodore
It was referred to as a vulcan freighter in two different occasions.
Then Alpha likes mixing it's sources with canon to liberally, it would seem.
Yup. But there's no canon source for the Vulcan freighters being Apollo class, only an Encyclopedia reference that doesn't seem to be based on anything much.
Doesn't mean the Vulcan transport couldn't serve in Starfleet, in which case she would probably indeed receive a class name, and an Earth-derived one at that. It's just that we have no reason to believe that this is the case, because we don't see the type in Starfleet service.
Too bad. I really liked that design, and it became a fantastic piece of retroactive continuity when ENT introduced the Vulcan ringships. I do wonder if the Encyclopedia-mentioned Surak class of Starfleet starships (or at least NCC-registered ships) is a modern ring-drive design of some sort, or if the Vulcan name just applies to a boring nacelled design. But that's a wholly noncanon issue... (I mean the Surak class of which USS Zapata is a member, not the supposed Suurok class from ENT.)
Timo Saloniemi
Doesn't mean the Vulcan transport couldn't serve in Starfleet, in which case she would probably indeed receive a class name, and an Earth-derived one at that. It's just that we have no reason to believe that this is the case, because we don't see the type in Starfleet service.
Too bad. I really liked that design, and it became a fantastic piece of retroactive continuity when ENT introduced the Vulcan ringships. I do wonder if the Encyclopedia-mentioned Surak class of Starfleet starships (or at least NCC-registered ships) is a modern ring-drive design of some sort, or if the Vulcan name just applies to a boring nacelled design. But that's a wholly noncanon issue... (I mean the Surak class of which USS Zapata is a member, not the supposed Suurok class from ENT.)
Timo Saloniemi
Memory Alpha has a pretty strange sense of 'canon', which appears to be "whatever Okuda thinks should be canon, regardless of where he got it from". As such it can read a lot like an expanded version of the old "Encyclopedia" books, with all that entails, mixed in with fan-speculation, etc., so long as it came from "The Okuda Era" of Star Trek "Fact."
Anyone remember the ol' Workbee? Sorry, Cargo Management Unit?
Saquist
Commodore
If there is no actual registry attached to ships or semblance that there were star fleet then there goes that theory.
well, lets take this registry question with some numbers!!
Okay.. The federation is a 1000 lightyears (ly) across.. with 150 member planets ( rough info from somewhere.. but lets use these numbers for now) Each member planet would have Some type of self defense fleet so, lets say 5 ships per planet.. minimum 5 x 150 750 ships right there for just planetary defense.. Granted some defense fleets would be made up of near retirment, or mothballed ships.. Now, what about non member planets? planets that are within Federation territory ( Cappela, Troyus etc.) so lets say atleast 1000 planetary systems ( very conservative estimate, 1000ly cube of space... poo load of systems, even if not inhabitable..) how many ships would it take to patrol them? 1200.. so a total of 2000 ships so far, Now, at maximum warp at 3ly per day (warp 9.7 new scale) It would take most of a year to cross a 1000 ly.. let alone circumnavigate.. how many research ships?, how many courier?, how many Tanker/cargo? ( granted, some would be civilian registration, but a good number be star fleet servicing star bases etc). lets say another 2000 roaming around the Fed.. so 4000 total (conservative) then we have an odd number of smaller ships, runabouts for couriers, starbase ships etc. so add another 1000, so 5000 so far. now add the number of ships for boarder defense.. Klingon, Romulan, Breen, Cardassian, Tholian Etc. all requiring an odd assortment of patrol ships.. so add, 2000? so 7000 ships so far.. now add the number of ships destroyed in War, accidents, etc. then add the retired ships.. from the past 100 years.. that adds up to ALOT!! 7000 minimum!!
owell.... just some writing out a thought!!
Okay.. The federation is a 1000 lightyears (ly) across.. with 150 member planets ( rough info from somewhere.. but lets use these numbers for now) Each member planet would have Some type of self defense fleet so, lets say 5 ships per planet.. minimum 5 x 150 750 ships right there for just planetary defense.. Granted some defense fleets would be made up of near retirment, or mothballed ships.. Now, what about non member planets? planets that are within Federation territory ( Cappela, Troyus etc.) so lets say atleast 1000 planetary systems ( very conservative estimate, 1000ly cube of space... poo load of systems, even if not inhabitable..) how many ships would it take to patrol them? 1200.. so a total of 2000 ships so far, Now, at maximum warp at 3ly per day (warp 9.7 new scale) It would take most of a year to cross a 1000 ly.. let alone circumnavigate.. how many research ships?, how many courier?, how many Tanker/cargo? ( granted, some would be civilian registration, but a good number be star fleet servicing star bases etc). lets say another 2000 roaming around the Fed.. so 4000 total (conservative) then we have an odd number of smaller ships, runabouts for couriers, starbase ships etc. so add another 1000, so 5000 so far. now add the number of ships for boarder defense.. Klingon, Romulan, Breen, Cardassian, Tholian Etc. all requiring an odd assortment of patrol ships.. so add, 2000? so 7000 ships so far.. now add the number of ships destroyed in War, accidents, etc. then add the retired ships.. from the past 100 years.. that adds up to ALOT!! 7000 minimum!!
owell.... just some writing out a thought!!
Let's remember that a basic assumption in Star Trek is that Starfleet is not capable of a timely response to a crisis, not even if the crisis threatens Earth itself. This holds true for all eras.
Clearly, there aren't enough starships to patrol all star systems, or even all the major ones. And apparently the situation cannot be remedied, or Starfleet would do so, either during peacetime when there are resources to spare, or during wartime when there is determination to spare. This has obvious implications for our ideas on starship construction times and cost and things of that nature... And on registry theories as well.
If we start from the idea that there must be fewer ships than the efficient patrolling of UFP space takes, it's actually a helpful limitation rather than a reason to abandon all hope. We get some sort of an upper limit, then, as per the above post's logic. But we don't get a lower limit, and even the Dominion War isn't very helpful there because many if not most of the ships seen there were relics from the previous century by design, and apparently relics of the beginning of the century by registry...
Timo Saloniemi
Clearly, there aren't enough starships to patrol all star systems, or even all the major ones. And apparently the situation cannot be remedied, or Starfleet would do so, either during peacetime when there are resources to spare, or during wartime when there is determination to spare. This has obvious implications for our ideas on starship construction times and cost and things of that nature... And on registry theories as well.
If we start from the idea that there must be fewer ships than the efficient patrolling of UFP space takes, it's actually a helpful limitation rather than a reason to abandon all hope. We get some sort of an upper limit, then, as per the above post's logic. But we don't get a lower limit, and even the Dominion War isn't very helpful there because many if not most of the ships seen there were relics from the previous century by design, and apparently relics of the beginning of the century by registry...
Timo Saloniemi
