Is the bridge at a funny angle?

[blssdwlf]

Everything between Spock's station and the view screen was added after The Cage. And they also changed sound stages, and at some point I believe they completely revamped the bridge sets.

Yeah, that's an understood that the bridges were changed between The Cage and WNMHGB. I was commenting to @Mytran that the wedge he highlighted wasn't the only wedge removed for the convenience of a shot based on the other missing wedges in "The Naked Time".

 

[BK613]

Yea, @Maurice posted a BTS montage of Nichols that shows some of those wedges disassembled upthread.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/is-the-bridge-at-a-funny-angle.306619/page-10#post-13696845

She is in front of the section that's just starboard of the viewscreen when in place and in the background you can see the viewscreen section and through it a third section (upper left image) and to the right of the viewscreen a fourth section (upper right image).

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Well, there is the final scenes in Engineering in the Day of the Dove. You remember, Kirk and Mara beam in to make peace with Kang.

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x07hd/dayofthedovehd1218.jpg

Notice that they beam in by the grate and in front of the big drum thingie.
Later when they need a row of Klingons in the background, guess what's not there anymore.

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x07hd/dayofthedovehd1379.jpg

By the way, just what is Kirk looking at? Oh yeah, the Entity.

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x07hd/dayofthedovehd1380.jpg

Floating above the stairs. Which we all know are somewhere else.

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x07hd/dayofthedovehd1267.jpg

Yep, on-screen proof that Engineering has TWO sets of stairs.

I've been suggesting for a long time that the engine room could be mirrored with the Emergency Manual Monitor above and in between both; there could be two pipe structures, one aimed aft acting as the plasma transfer conduits, and the other aimed forward connecting to the main deflector, thus tying the warp system to the deflector system. It's been something that I just liked, and had no evidence to support, but now, there might be actual evidence!

 

[Tallguy]

We know the central platform wasn't nailed down, due this impossible shot that eliminated any need for an image on the main view-screen:
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x22hd/byanyothernamehd0858.jpg

And they knew their business, too. I watched for decades as a devout fan, but the eye is so drawn to Chekov and what's about to happen to him that I probably didn't notice the set behind him until we had Internet photos. They absolutely got away with this.

OMFG this post was from over a year ago! It was a weird shot! There were reasons!

 

[Mytran]

It is interesting that in WNMHGB that short handrail has both end extensions (stubs) because they knew it would be in the shot but The Naked Time short rail behind Spock is missing the stub on one end as if the production did not mean to have that left side picked up on camera.

In WNMHGB it was a complete, 3-section handrail thoughout the episode, which is why it always had the stubby ends.
In TNT (and a few other episodes) the stubbies are accidentally shown to be missing, such as this shot from Man Trap

However, most of the time they were stuck back onto the end of the remaining handrail after the wedge next to Spock had been removed.

Edit: although we see the front rail in an interesting rotated position in front of the helm station a little later. Seems that alot of the wedges were removed and not just the one next to Spock's station...

The gap between the hand rail sections in that screencap is HUGE - it almost looks like an entire group of wedges was just shoved out of the way in order to fit the camera in at the side. It's really messy (which is also why I cropped it out of my own pic!)

 

[F. King Daniel]

Wow, all this time and I never noticed the railings moved and changed length. The trickery works.

 

[DonIago]

Wow, all this time and I never noticed the railings moved and changed length. The trickery works.

Just means you were focused on enjoying the episode itself instead of looking for technical faults.

 

[blssdwlf]

When you say 3-section handrail from WNMHGB am I correct that you are counting the number of posts? So the normal ones are 4 posts/sections and the short one is 3 posts/sections?

Curious now seeing the other screenshots I wonder what the production crew rules are for using the angled versus the straight stubs on the ends.

In WNMHGB it was a complete, 3-section handrail thoughout the episode, which is why it always had the stubby ends.
In TNT (and a few other episodes) the stubbies are accidentally shown to be missing, such as this shot from Man Trap

However, most of the time they were stuck back onto the end of the remaining handrail after the wedge next to Spock had been removed.

The gap between the hand rail sections in that screencap is HUGE - it almost looks like an entire group of wedges was just shoved out of the way in order to fit the camera in at the side. It's really messy (which is also why I cropped it out of my own pic!)

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

I guess I just assumed that any shot where the bridge is partly cut away, or any set is partly cut away, it was just supposed to be taken as though the camera could be put somewhere it could not "really be" put on a "real" ship. Sort of like in a video game where the viewing perspective of a camera can be able to travel "through" virtual walls and other objects to show events in the game. It never occurred to me that there would be any reason to try and make the handrail look complete. I was thinking the same thing about the side of Spock's station. It is just the perspective of the camera is in a place a camera on the ship could not fit.

I can use the same logic on the power unit during "Day of the Dove" mentioned earlier. The our viewing perspective, aka the "camera" is passing through where the power uit would be, letting us see Klingons around and behind it. That happens all the time in video games. I'm up for possibly accepting two sets of stairs, though

For me, I cannot use the same logic to say that the door is "really" right behind the captain. That's changing what we see, not making some of it just not appear. At the moment, the idea of a bridge that can recess into the saucer so that the viewscreen is forward and still have room for the turbolift, but rotates up until the turbolift is straight at aft of the bridge and viewscreen is offcenter, seems to get the job done.

I do not feel a need to suggest a moveable "command module" (as it is called in some references) for the three main officers in the pit. Those angles not lining up are not noticeable enough to me to seem like a change, and instead just seem like the "camera" passing through objects again. The helm console does not seem to be able to come partially apart, so moving it to an angle is as close as one could come to removing a power unit in engineering.

It is interesting to see how some of these differences in the sets are major discrepancies for some, while others differences are major discrepancies for others. It really makes me wonder about bridges that I like less (the one from the 2009 movies for example): How much represents a marked change by a new designer, and how much did it just look "similar" in someone-in-production's eyes?

 

[BK613]

@Mres_was_framed! I don't think of them as discrepancies as much as artifacts of the production process. Since @blssdwlf had me looking at rails, one artifact I can't unsee now are the bolts on the rail supports:

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x05hd/isthereintruthnobeautyhd1034.jpg
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0671.jpg

 

[blssdwlf]

@Mres_was_framed! I don't think of them as discrepancies as much as artifacts of the production process. Since @blssdwlf had me looking at rails, one artifact I can't unsee now are the bolts on the rail supports:

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x05hd/isthereintruthnobeautyhd1034.jpg
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0671.jpg

Nice observation on the bolts! Are they only present for attaching the stubs?

 

[BK613]

Nice observation on the bolts! Are they only present for attaching the stubs?

Good question. I'm not sure. In these two shots from The Changeling you can see that the foreground supports don't have the "bolts".
And you also can see the reflection on three bolts on the stub supports (two by Uhura, one by Scotty).

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0153.jpg
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0155.jpg

But in that final image, you also can see the silhouette of a bolt against the background of the lift doors on a support that's not a stub (look above the navigator's hand).
Maybe some of the rails were built to be removed during filming?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

@Mres_was_framed! I don't think of them as discrepancies as much as artifacts of the production process. Since @blssdwlf had me looking at rails, one artifact I can't unsee now are the bolts on the rail supports:

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x05hd/isthereintruthnobeautyhd1034.jpg
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0671.jpg

No issues here. Those are 23rd century bolts, which hold pieces of the railing together. That's how it's done in the distant future.

 

[Mytran]

When you say 3-section handrail from WNMHGB am I correct that you are counting the number of posts? So the normal ones are 4 posts/sections and the short one is 3 posts/sections?

Sorry no, I was referencing each full length hand rail as a "section".
So, a normal "3-section" one has 3 handrails and 4 posts

Since @blssdwlf had me looking at rails, one artifact I can't unsee now are the bolts on the rail supports:

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x05hd/isthereintruthnobeautyhd1034.jpg
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0671.jpg

Thanks to these and the screenshots highlighted by @BK613 we can see that as a general rule, the bolts are used at the end of a handrail sequence to attached the stubby ends.
At first I thought that the stubbie was attached to a thin black plate, which is bolted onto the final handrail post:
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0671.jpg
However, we see here that the plate is also present on the other side of the post (by Uhura)
https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0153.jpg
...so it seems likely that the black plate is there to reinforce the post and protect them from damage by the bolts.
However, if the stubby isn't attached to the plates then I'm really not sure what holds them up!

https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd0155.jpg
But in that final image, you also can see the silhouette of a bolt against the background of the lift doors on a support that's not a stub (look above the navigator's hand).
Maybe some of the rails were built to be removed during filming?

I think what we're seeing here is the result of the dividing up of the handrails that happened between The Cage and WNMHGB. As mentioned upthread, the forward handrails in WNMHGB were not of equal lengths, so once the series itself was commissioned and the handrails were standardised to 3-section units, some bolting back together had to occur.
It's interesting that the handrail sequence in the foreground has ZERO bolts present - could this be surviving piece of set from The Cage, one which was never cut and divided?
If so then the handrails moved around a lot, because in the pictures seen here:

The pie wedges were on wheels and just rolled out as needed. The stations between Spock's and the viewer were rarely in place. You can see some of them in the background in some publicity photos of Nichols.

...the handrail posts on that sequence have most definitely been split and bolted!

 

[Redfern]

I remember working on one of these kits back in the 90's while talking heads were discussing if Bill Clinton had a chance at the Oval Office in the background on the tube.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS936US936&sxsrf=ALiCzsaaxnsmqme2Fk7MwLC0ZlpDHXlE3g:1670624528137&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=uss+enterprise+bridge+model+kit&fir=o6z5ZTNHANhoVM%2CqnHmyCYPUlk57M%2C_%3BjGXoBvLDScneaM%2CfxFF-5VhWef3bM%2C_%3B0B1Htpzx3iDUeM%2CqnHmyCYPUlk57M%2C_%3BkNzTU505bBezoM%2CVCLU0bN5YZNTGM%2C_%3BdYG5qhJLyIsX6M%2CqnHmyCYPUlk57M%2C_%3BbnN86jfc9YXRwM%2CfPT-JcfgzLGIgM%2C_%3BzF-xmTna2umf9M%2CVCLU0bN5YZNTGM%2C_%3Bi8dMKqJ2WWc9_M%2Ck7DLphdW5RarVM%2C_%3BRSCao6FbKyRU_M%2CD9p8EgLN8imCLM%2C_%3Bz5nlcMdf0J08KM%2CuKlOAF1cxHNuhM%2C_%3B5FSTMkGxDrI5ZM%2CPxPhW6_OgI_wCM%2C_%3Bjf4gIxT3I6SbjM%2CoxSwMvVCrBBLdM%2C_&usg=AI4_-kRBHqffReXOoavFVKit9_5ZXX-kzw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwigxLWsye37AhVaMUQIHU1pCUAQjJkEegQIDBAC&biw=1213&bih=546&dpr=1.13

I've no idea where that kit went over the years, but I remember arranging and rearranging the stations into non-canon configurations.

A new edition is available.

Yeah, it now includes the port side stations and pieces to depict a few more crew (the original only had Kirk, Spock and Sulu). Alas, without a major overhaul that would require new molds for at least 4 large pieces, the kit has a flaw that just bugs me like an unreachable itch. The turbolift door is too large and shallow, while the view-screen is too small and deep. But correcting those would also mean correcting the deck plates that support them. The door can be partially corrected by applying styrene strips to form a "frame" around the doors. The alcove would still be too shallow but it would help. The view-screen bulkhead, oy, that one can't be solved with just a couple of styrene strips. To get anything halfway resembling the proper dimensions, a whole new bulkhaed with a beveled recess for the actual "screen" would need to be assembled from scratch, far more involved than the turbolift doors.

It would be a real trip if Round2 would redo the whole thing like they've done for the Galileo shuttlecraft, in a proper 1/32th scale to match the figures offered with the shuttle. But I'm aware that ships are far more popular than diorama kits. I'm actually surprised Round2 did what they did for the existing bridge kit, especially the far more accurate decal sheet. The one offered in the 1975 original had some truly funky designs, patterns one might associate more with a stoner's bedroom!

 

[publiusr]

It might have been a good idea to have used the changes to differentiate Commodore Wesley’s ship, to fit his chair with the higher back or the Mirror Enterprise, with a more complete railing, etc.

 

[plynch]

This is interesting.

It also represents to me a new level of dissecting how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, Trek BBS style. The handrails — wow. What’s left? (And again, I am an admirer of the thread and finding it interesting,)

 

[yotsuya]

I find it terribly interesting to see all the permutations of what they can do with the sets.

 

[fireproof78]

It's took bad they never did a "the ship is cracking" and pull two sections apart bit. Probably massively overbudget but still...gives me ideas.

 

[Tallguy]

Oh dear. I've just got an idea! (An awful idea! A wonderful, awful idea!)

Taking the sections that were "standing", i.e. the set as it was most often used with the section missing for the cameras and the set ends at Mr. Spock's station, I'd be interested to list whenever we saw more. I'd be curious to know how often this was done and what it looked like when they did it.

Was it rare or more often than we expect?