Is the best of Star Trek behind us? (visually)

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by JesterFace, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. JesterFace

    JesterFace Commodore Commodore

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    There's no way to predict the future accurately.... but....
    Are the best episodes and movies of Star Trek already out there?

    I don't know is it nostalgia talking but by what 'Discovery' and now 'Picard' trailers are showing us, can new Trek material ever be as good as what's already out there?
    No way to know for sure, but by the look of the new series compared to the older stuff, I think 90s series look far better and also the original series is more pleasing to my eyes.

    Obviously, it's a different thing can the stories be as good or better that what we've seen.
    But by, should I say, "production point of view" or set design, the new stuff is just too dark for me.

    Eventually there might be a time when 90s more bright style will be more popular again.
     
  2. The_Baron

    The_Baron Captain Captain

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    Surely it's subjective?
    I for one think visually, the sets, ships, effects - everything really look much better now than they ever did before.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Yep.

    I disagree here. I think the current stuff is the most generic Trek has ever looked.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    No, I don't think so. I think it is all in the quality and care of the stories made. Star Trek has the potential to go very far forward with current technology if they are willing to move outside the 90s box.
     
  5. Conzilium

    Conzilium Ensign Red Shirt

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    1954, 4min mile achieved. Can anyone ever go faster?!
     
  6. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    100% correct.

    For CGI, they look great. Does having a few hundred ships on screen at once do anything for me? Nope, not when the 1996 TNG movie had several dozen. Whiz-bang effects by themselves do nothing and do not hold up; the methods and technology used to create effects look dated as newer means to create them evolve. There needs to be a robust story driving the effects. Never the other way around.

    Storytelling is like a cake recipe. The effects are the icing but covering a load of sawdust and dust bunnies (yes, "bunnies", not "mites") isn't going to be very tasty. But it's invariably subjective. And even the best storylines have plot holes and other issues. A cake is always a complex thing...

    I like dark and gritty material. I also like comedic material. Part of the cake recipe involves a balance of ingredients, which is different between people. I like experimental plots. I like traditional plots. But those aren't the only variables, all I did was list a few ingredient types. Not measurements or even individual flavors, which can differ between peoples' tastes.

    Lastly, when a person buys a box of Chocolate Angel Swirl brand cake, that's the flavor they're probably going to expect upon tasting. I doubt they will want to open the box, follow the included ingredients to the letter, only to sink their teeth into Raspberry Castoreum/Red Dye #5 Surprise instead. Also, please do not look up what "Castoreum" is, much less ask how someone stumbled on what it tastes like, much less what red dye #5 is...
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I already knew that one.
     
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  8. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    There are some folks who thought the best of Trek was behind us after "The Cage", TOS, TMP, TWoK, TNG and so on. Trek will continue on as it always has, very hit or miss.
     
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  9. MrPicard

    MrPicard Jean-Luc's Loving Husband Premium Member

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    Since I did not grow up with Trek due to a lack of someone who could have introduced me to it, I lack the nostalgia goggles when looking at 90s Trek, maybe this is a good thing, I don't know. To me, that Trek and today's Trek are VERY far apart in both storytelling and visual effects. But... so are 90s Trek and 60s Trek. Different eras, different styles (although I do have to admit that 90s Trek did try to honor 60s Trek in a way that today's Trek somehow... does not seem to do. I don't know, maybe that's just me, but I do prefer the more direct approach of actually re-creating parts of the TOS bridge for TNG's "Relics" over DSC's rather blatant retcon of what the good old 1701 looked like in "The Cage").

    So my answer is probably "they're definitely doing Trek differently now and it's something you REALLY have to get used to". But then, to some, today's Trek is the first Trek they experience, and to them, 90s Trek is what 60s Trek was to someone who walked into the fandom at the start of TNG - a thing from the past that they enjoy watching but never experienced themselves at the time it aired and therefore find a little... quaint, maybe? Outdated even, perhaps?

    But, as others have said, it's VERY subjective. To some, the TOS era is the best that had the best episodes. Others will say the TNG/DS9 era was the best and had the best episodes and nothing will ever come close. And so on and so on. It really depends on who you ask, IMO.
     
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  10. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The only thing that needs to happen for Star Trek to be "better than it was in the past" is for any given individual to think that a current iteration is better than something that came in the past.

    Pretty simple.
     
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  11. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In the early-2000s, there was a poster who every now and then would start a thread complaining about then-current Trek and wishing for a return to the way things were in TOS. I'm not knocking him. In fact, we got along great. But, nevertheless, he was always pining for something more like TOS. (Though I preferred TOS to the Star Trek of that time, I wanted a third direction, which is effectively what we have now).

    So, 15 years into the Berman Era we still had people pining for the return to things being more like TOS. One day, 15 years into the Kurtzman Era, we'll still have people pining for the return to things being more like the Berman Era.

    In other words: I've seen all this before. On this very board. And it's happening again. It won't ever go back to what it was before. If Alex Kurtzman left tomorrow and someone else took over, it might become something else but it won't be what it was. But the sentiment for the return to yesteryear will always be there. And these discussions will always run the same course. What I'm saying now will work just as well 15 years from now as it does today. It would work just well 15 years ago if we changed the names.

    I like Star Trek in its current form, I hope I like it as long as possible. I wish things could be different for those who don't and hopefully maybe someday there's another Star Trek they do like even if it's not exactly what it was. So that's pretty much all I have to say about this particular topic. Anything else I'd say in the future would just be a variation of the same. Sayonara.
     
  12. The Overlord

    The Overlord Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Considering Voyager was mostly a snooze and the later TNG films sucked, I disagree, I like this new stuff better than almost all the post-DS9 Trek, the only thing I kinda liked before the film reboot and after the end of DS9, was the last 2 seasons of Enterprise.

    I liked 2 of the 3 Reboot films and while Discovery has some flaws, it is like a Trek show I have consistently enjoyed since DS9. It's not dull and formulaic like Voyager is.
     
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  13. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    Roddenberry's Star Trek was aiming for an optimistic future while Kurtzman's Trek is constantly aiming for the worst in all of us. Trek can be as good as what's been done during TNG heyday, it all depends on the showrunner and her or his entire view of the course the series will take. Never in my wildest dreams I thought I would ever see a TVMA Star Trek and it's here; I thought keeping Trek for all ages made it appropriate for the next generation of fans (meaning kids) could watch the material along with friends and family. TVMA, to me, is patterned for an acquired taste, the powers who are should be asking themselves are the stories they're trying to tell is appropriate for Star Trek? I agree with you the new material is too dark.
     
  14. Blooded

    Blooded Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I personally don't think it's subjective: Trek has never looked as good on TV as it currently does.
     
  15. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Commodore Commodore

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    Objectively, no. Unless you think human society and culture is doomed in the next couple generations (...which is a fair point). Surely, when it reaches public domain, there'll be Star Trek that far exceeds the current quality and most of what's been made in the past. Amongst all the rubbish, of course.
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    That still had problems. TOS had technology gone bad, bigotry, and all manner of human ills. The optimism came from them working together, not that we had outgrown all our bad.
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I think even TNG in 1987 looked better. To me, the only show that Discovery looks better than is TOS. And that is on a technical level, not artistic. I’ve been really disappointed with the look currently based on how much money they are spending.
     
  18. Blooded

    Blooded Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that one :)
     
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  19. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Definitely a mileage may vary situation.
     
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  20. 1001001

    1001001 I Like the Nightlife, Baby! Moderator

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    Visually, IMHO, Discovery looks better than anything Trek has done. It's gorgeous.

    Really, it's like watching a feature film every week.

    My second favorite is Voyager.

    TOS is of its time. In the 60's it was the shit. We should have some respect for that.