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Is Starfleet Military?

SF is a military like a fire department is a cat rescue service
Change that to "people" rescue service & I might agree. Their primary function is to deal with fires. In so doing they are also tasked with saving people in nearly as many ways as EMTs are often required to, & the link between the two is so comingled that many fire departments have EMTs working on their crews for just such eventualities.
 
SF is a military like a fire department is a cat rescue service.
Yes, they do it, and they might do it a lot.
But it's not their main function, not what they were created for.
They simply have the ability, skill, and equipment.
Let's run with this analogy.

If there is a house on fire and cat stuck in a tree, what does the fire department do? It puts out the fire. So far so good.

If there is a new and interesting spatial anomaly to study or a Federation world being attacked by the Dominion, what does Starfleet do? It goes and studies the anomaly. Because that's it's primary function.

That doesn't seem to be the likely or believable scenario.
 
That's what the old guard always says...:lol:

It's just the inevitability of power.

Being a military means you have certain legal powers and responsibilities that no other agency gets to have. Indeed, allowing other agencies or organizations to have those powers would inherently be threats to fundamental rights -- the U.S. Navy can imprison its officers and NCOs for violating its internal codes; the Subway Corporation cannot imprison its employees for violating its employee codes. That means that that paradigm is inevitable -- you cannot give the powers of a military to an organization that is not a military.
 
Wait, first Starfleet and now someone is saying that SUBWAY is not a military?!? Where will it end?

But seriously! The fact that a military operates a system of courts-martial to enforce special law upon its members is a very important legal distinction between it and other organizations! If you go AWOL from your posting aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln or Ramstein Air Base, you get arrested and put on trial for desertion; if you quit your job at Subway in the middle of Tuesday lunch rush during your shift, Subway does not get to place you under arrest! This marks a military as a distinct type of organization by law; it is not a paradigm that just goes away because said military is also given non-violent missions to conduct.
 
Let's just entertain for a moment the "not a military" argument just for shits and giggles. That means that when the Federation was founded in the wake of the Romulan War, the four founding members chose to disband their own militaries and retask a space exploration service to hold the monopoly on their defense. Despite having just ended a war against a militant enemy that was only resolved with a shaky and uneasy truce. And despite having run-ins with at least one other species of militant conquerors and an alliance of five races within the same species that actually made an attempt to destroy one of the Federation's founding worlds not to mention various skirmishes with various other aliens with militaries that hold their own, the newly formed Federation decides to do away with their own militaries and that defense will be handled by an exploration service that apparently prioritizes scientific endeavors as its primary mission. And the damnedest thing is, this somehow works, and over the course of the next nine hundred years, despite run-ins with all kinds of hostile galactic powers, including a cybernetic race bent on absorbing other cultures and worlds into its own collective hivemind (who have themselves attacked Earth on at least two occasions and decimated Starfleet both times) and a genocidal alliance of conquerors who waged war against the Federation which included decimating Starfleet, conquering a core world, and even scoring a direct attack on Earth itself, Starfleet still prevailed with its science and exploration first, defense and combat second mentality.

But then, after nine hundred years of proving the beaker is mightier than the sword, a mysterious scientific event causes a vast majority of the dilithium in the galaxy to explode, and after nine hundred years of keeping the peace with science, Starfleet reacts to this by abandoning all scientific and exploration initiatives and focus entirely on defense and security instead. And it stays like this for another century until a temporally displaced starship from the halcyon days of exploration arrives, defies orders, and manages to use science to solve the Burn and find a stockpile of dilithium in a mere matter of months.

So, to summarize, Starfleet, according to the "not a military" crowd are the soldiers who reacted to a devastating war by becoming scientists, and succeeded as scientists for close to a millennium until science scared them into becoming soldiers again, and stayed that way until the scientist ancestors of the modern soldiers show up and used science to solve their problems. To use the firefighter analogy, this would be like a city after a disaster that involved a ton of flooding deciding that water is the enemy and from now on they will fight fire with fire. And this works for several decades until one day the city's gasoline supplies ignite and go up in flames. In response, the fire department now uses water to extinguish fires, which they're struggling to do because no gasoline for the fire trucks. Until one day a bunch of old school firefighters from the past show up, and by fighting fire with fire again, they find a new stockpile of gasoline and usher in utopia.

Is this seriously the way Starfleet should be acting according to the "not a military" crowd?
 
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Arguably, to me, a more interesting and complicated question than is Starfleet "a space military" is whether Starfleet is also supposed to be "the space police" for the Federation? The argument over Starfleet seems to break down over whether its role in exploration supersedes their duty as the organizing defense organization for the Federation.

But we also see Starfleet doing roles usually assigned to law enforcement (e.g., O'Brien's undercover work with the Orion Syndicate, the head of Starfleet's JAG office handles the case against Bashir's father, who's a civilian) and intelligence gathering.

Here in the real-world, those duties are divided between the military and civilian authority (the FBI and CIA). So, in some ways, Starfleet concentrates powers that are divided at least in the United States between the Department of Defense, Department of Justice, and the Director of National Intelligence.
 
Arguably, to me, a more interesting and complicated question than is Starfleet "a space military" is whether Starfleet is also supposed to be "the space police" for the Federation? The argument over Starfleet seems to break down over whether its role in exploration supersedes their duty as the organizing defense organization for the Federation.

But we also see Starfleet doing roles usually assigned to law enforcement (e.g., O'Brien's undercover work with the Orion Syndicate, the head of Starfleet's JAG office handles the case against Bashir's father, who's a civilian) and intelligence gathering.

Here in the real-world, those duties are divided between the military and civilian authority (the FBI and CIA). So, in some ways, Starfleet concentrates powers that are divided at least in the United States between the Department of Defense, Department of Justice, and the Director of National Intelligence.
The worldbuilding in Star Trek is very poor, though often times we see streamlined versions for narrative expediency. IE, the Homefront/Paradise Lost storyline on DS9 intentionally excluded and references to an Earth government or defense forces or security agencies mostly because the writers felt it would clog the script up with too much exposition and left the focus on the Federation government and Starfleet. A legitimate decision to make in the writer's room in the moment, sure, but in the scope of the greater franchise as a whole does create the impression that Starfleet has its hands in a bit too many pies.
 
Arguably, to me, a more interesting and complicated question than is Starfleet "a space military" is whether Starfleet is also supposed to be "the space police" for the Federation? The argument over Starfleet seems to break down over whether its role in exploration supersedes their duty as the organizing defense organization for the Federation.

But we also see Starfleet doing roles usually assigned to law enforcement (e.g., O'Brien's undercover work with the Orion Syndicate, the head of Starfleet's JAG office handles the case against Bashir's father, who's a civilian) and intelligence gathering.

Here in the real-world, those duties are divided between the military and civilian authority (the FBI and CIA). So, in some ways, Starfleet concentrates powers that are divided at least in the United States between the Department of Defense, Department of Justice, and the Director of National Intelligence.

Regarding the two examples you listed...

Admural Bennett was involved because Bashir was a Starfleet officer, so it makes sense that to make a deal to keep Julian in Starfleet, his father would have to deal with someone who had the authority to actually keep Julian in Starfleet.

And O'Brien... Starfleet Intelligence tapped him because other members inside of Starfleet Intelligence were killed, so they needed someone outside Intelligence, but still in Starfleet, to do that mission.

So in both cases, Starfleet interests were either involved or Starfleet was necessary for the scenario.
 
if you quit your job at Subway in the middle of Tuesday lunch rush during your shift, Subway does not get to place you under arrest!
Well, when I get hired by Subway, I don't swear a legally-binding oath to preserve, protect and defend the employee handbook....:lol:


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Edit to add: And to be clear, the US Armed Forces do not create the rules they operate under. The Uniform Code of Military Justice was enacted by Congress and can only be changed by Congress. And the appeals process for the court system it uses end up at the same place as all the other appellate actions in the US—the Supreme Court.

We have no freaking idea where Starfleet gets its legal authority because its just TV fiction and that episode hasn't been written yet. :rofl:
 
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Let's run with this analogy.

If there is a house on fire and cat stuck in a tree, what does the fire department do? It puts out the fire. So far so good.

If there is a new and interesting spatial anomaly to study or a Federation world being attacked by the Dominion, what does Starfleet do? It goes and studies the anomaly. Because that's it's primary function.

That doesn't seem to be the likely or believable scenario.
Easy: which is more urgent? That's what they'll do.
Note that fire departments of course respond to emergencies, and that anomalies are not always emergencies.
It's about main function, primary mission, purpose why they were founded, compared to additional tasks they also do because they can.
 
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