Is Star Trek 2009 Beyond Criticism?

[Augustus]

Well, I think those that don't like the movie are being overly defensive as well.

And it is hard to take their criticism seriously when most of it is because it is not THEIR Trek, or Abrams destoyed Trek or such nonsense.

But those people that didn't like the plot or the acting or the FX or the characters or whatever, those people I have no beef with because that is legit.

But hating for the sake of Trek sanctity elicits no sympathy from me.

 

[Rii]

Wow. Thanks for proving my point.

"I feel sorry for people who don't [love this movie]."

Feeling sorry for people isn't bashing them. It's just sorrow, plain and simple.

It's still quite pretentious and patronizing.

It can be, yeah. How it comes across depends largely upon context.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I think most people take the movie for what it is. A good summer blockbuster action movie without much depth but with a lot of fun factor. Its low on the drama, exploration and/or social commentaries side, but high on action and humor.

I think many people agreed its what Star Trek needed at this moment to keep Star Trek alive. Other future movie or TV shows will possibly have better storylines and drama.

Exactly. I mean, come on, we all knew what we were in for the minute we found out who would be directing it. I happen to like it. But whoever doesn't, please, go ahead.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I have definitely seen this attitude across this board, even in my short time here.

So, what's the problem?

When one advances a criticism of the movie, is it required that people who disagree with one either:

1) Ignore you;
2) Admire the criticism overtly ("Oh, I didn't think of that. How remarkably insightful.")
3) Acknowledge it politely ("I see that you feel differently about this.")
4) Concede it ("Oh, you're completely right. I'm wrong.")

Or is it still okay to say "No, I disagree with that, didn't have a problem with it, and/or am not particularly impressed by the point?"

At least all five of those have to be okay.

It's no fun being in the minority. I know; been there. Based on experience I think it's a little less painful to have my complaints disagreed with than my enthusiasms mocked. Complaint/criticism is provocative on its face - yes, that goes for justified, fair criticism as well as the mean-spirited variety - while enthusiasm is vulnerability. You'll never find a group of people where both faces of that coin are treated the same (as distinct from fairly).

Oh, and BTW - Nimoy made a joke on SNL . I think it's funny, just as I think Shatner's "Get A Life" is funny. Is Shatner allowed to mock overly-serious fans on SNL but Nimoy isn't?

 

[Overgeeked]

Yeah quoting that from Nimoy (3 times) is just plain old immature!! Come on people....let's grow up here!!

So instead I'm going to quote you quoting Nimoy to call people dickheads...see that little workaround I came up with!

Yeah, that was a glitch. Stupid edit feature wasn't recognizing that I put that in the first time, then added it three times. Sorry about that.

 

[Jon1701]

"[Reviewing this movie is] a daunting task because the producers and Internet reviewers have set up a scenario in which the movie is beyond criticism. If you don't simply accept everything the film presents then you are branded a "nit-picker" who can't see past his strict adherence to canon..."

From here.

I have definitely seen this attitude across this board, even in my short time here.

Why is it so hard to accept that intelligent people can disagree about the aesthetics of a movie? Disagreeing with someone doesn't make them retarded, stupid, lifeless, etc.

This new movie is Star Trek (because it's labeled as such), whether you like the movie or not.

And quoting things like Nimoy's appearance on SNL is ridiculous. "Like it or you're a dickhead," is about as juvenile as you can get. Grow up.

And quoting things like Nimoy's SNL appearance is practically abuse. "Like it or you're a dickhead," is about as juvenile as you can get.

It is canon (because it's on screen), whether you like it or not.

But, that doesn't preclude having discussions about whether people liked the movie. Nor does it preclude people from pointing out the internal flaws of this film. Nor does it preclude discussing the themes, philosophy, moral, etc of this film when compared to the rest of the franchise.

We're all Trek fans here, leave the bashing and bullshit for the rest of the internets.

And quoting things like Nimoy's appearance on SNL is just ridiculous. "If you don't like this you're a dickhead," is about as juvenile as you can get. Grow up.

Comes down to attitude, which in fairness - you do not seem to have.

There is such a wonderful enthusiasm for this movie, but the vocal minority feel a need to try and drag down every thread with insults, sneering down their noses. Enterprise wasn't my favourite TV show. It was ok, but I never really got into it. Watched pretty much all of it, but although a few episodes were good, it never really caught fire. In my opinion.

That said, you'll never see me in the forum ragging the shit out of the show. I respect other peoples opinions. You'll never catch me call people a dick for liking "One night in sickbay" or whatever.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yet, far too many people use the internet to say things they would never say in life. The holier-than-thou attitude wears pretty thin after a while. Interestingly, the "Gene Roddenberry wouldn't have...blah, blah, blah" card hasn't been played for a while. Can't be long before that one comes out. Personally, I think he would have liked this more than treks II-VI.

You don't like the movie, fine. Pick out the flaws if you must.

But don't sneer at us for being enthusiastic.

 

[marc0702]

I think most people take the movie for what it is. A good summer blockbuster action movie without much depth but with a lot of fun factor. Its low on the drama, exploration and/or social commentaries side, but high on action and humor.

I think many people agreed its what Star Trek needed at this moment to keep Star Trek alive. Other future movie or TV shows will possibly have better storylines and drama.

I think as much as it was a fun summer blockbuster, I think it still had some depths. We got the beginnings of the relationships we knew in the old show. The movie could have benefitted from maybe another 20-30 minutes just to expand some stuff, but otherwise it was very entertaining.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Enterprise wasn't my favourite TV show. It was ok, but I never really got into it. Watched pretty much all of it, but although a few episodes were good, it never really caught fire. In my opinion.

That said, you'll never see me in the forum ragging the shit out of the show. I respect other peoples opinions.

Yep.

I didn't think much of Voyager and I disliked DS9. I say as much from time to time. That said, I spend almost no time and very, very rarely post in either the Voyager or DS9 forums. Why should I spend time there, since I don't like the shows?

 

[Sky]

I discuss the film here because I had high hopes for it, I was very enthusiastic about it, I waited for it for a looooong while and thought it'd probably be the best Trek I've seen after TUC. It fell flat and I was emotionally invested so now I am disappointed. I want the sequels to be better, way better. If only the positive opinions and reviews are voiced, I'm afraid we'll only get more of the same.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I discuss the film here because I had high hopes for it, I was very enthusiastic about it, I waited for it for a looooong while and thought it'd probably be the best Trek I've seen after TUC. It fell flat and I was emotionally invested so now I am disappointed. I want the sequels to be better, way better. If only the positive opinions and reviews are voiced, I'm afraid we'll only get more of the same.

Complaining about this movie on TrekBBS won't affect what they do with the next one in any substantial way.

A disappointing showing at the box office might have gotten their attention.

If there's enough complaint about some little detail that they can change enough to pander to the fans without altering the thrust of what they're doing then they might do that. Maybe they'll send Kirk off to the Farragut for a while between movies and mention it at the beginning of the next one, or something. Probably not.

However, when something is as successful as this movie is the message has already been sent: You succeeded and satisfied the most people by doing what you thought was best, so keep doing that.

 

[Sky]

So should those who did not like the film just shut up and go away then?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

So should those who did not like the film just shut up and go away then?

No.

But I'll ask you again - what do you want? For people who disagree with you to just admire your enormous courage and integrity for having an opinion? Or are we allowed to say that we disagree or that - heaven forbid - we think you're wrong?"

You have one problem - you're in a small minority here. So if you post something and get back one agreement and ten disagreements then that may look like piling on but it's more basically a matter of the relative size of the two groups here. The "pro-movie" people don't check with one another and draw straws to decide who gets to post a response and which nine have to hang back so the critical poster doesn't feel too outnumbered.

And - to put it quite bluntly - we just had a rowdy weekend largely because of the persistence of one or two jerks who were determined to sneer at anyone who liked this movie and throw us all out of the fandom. They were doing it for months before this movie came out. And while others may be more mature and forgiving, I'm always willing to ratchet up the jerkitude as high as the law allows when arguing with other jerks.

 

[Qonos]

I discuss the film here because I had high hopes for it, I was very enthusiastic about it, I waited for it for a looooong while and thought it'd probably be the best Trek I've seen after TUC. It fell flat and I was emotionally invested so now I am disappointed. I want the sequels to be better, way better. If only the positive opinions and reviews are voiced, I'm afraid we'll only get more of the same.

Well saying something here might not help, but I know where Robert Orci can be reached. Just don't act like Matt did

 

[QuasarVM]

Is it "beyond criticism"? Um, no. I don't think anyone has said the film is flawless. Personally, I didn't like Scottys' alien sidekick. But since I'm a "glass is half full" kind of guy...I choose not to dwell on the one or two little aspects I didn't like and focus on the umpteen jillion GREAT things about this film.

Certainly after Insurrection and Nemesis, this film could almost do no wrong -- except to repeat the Berman Trek formula...now THAT would have been a disaster!

No film is above criticism -- I just happen to love this one!

 

[Captain_Rogers]

"[Reviewing this movie is] a daunting task because the producers and Internet reviewers have set up a scenario in which the movie is beyond criticism. If you don't simply accept everything the film presents then you are branded a "nit-picker" who can't see past his strict adherence to canon..."

From here.

I have definitely seen this attitude across this board, even in my short time here.

Odd how in your "short time here" you seem to have missed the very thing that sets people off. Comments such as "The morons are drinking Abrams bathwater" And the rash of insults and rude behavior directed at people who like the film.

you've missed comments like "most all of the old hands hated the film"

ranting about "not your father's Star Trek" as being an insult to the fan base, and presuming to speak for everyone.

You've also managed to ignore the absolute comments saying the movie is crap, and people who like it have been drinking kool aid.


tends to make one believe you are a troll.

I enjoyed the movie, and based on a number of factors, such as the majority of film goers are making positive remarks. Box office results are high for a trek film,and the people who are posting largely positive remarks are not the ones getting in people's faces over it.

I don't recall seeing threads like "I told you so bitches!!!!" and open it to find a gushing review of the film. The same cannot be said of the people who hated the film.

Seems to me the people who liked it are far more accepting and reasonable than those who didn't.

 

[Phily B]

I think everyone can agree that a lot of the plot points are iffy, but at the same time there are people going way over the top and whining about it just because its nuTrek. Star Trek has violated its own canon many times without being a reboot.

 

[thumbtack]

I'm afraid we'll only get more of the same.

We can only hope.

 

[Amaris]

So should those who did not like the film just shut up and go away then?

Look how quickly you get defensive. Dennis, not once, mentioned that you should be silent and not voice your criticisms, but that's where some people leap automatically. It kept happening to me in another thread. I was asking general questions, and the reply always had some element of "So I should just..." in it.

You have every right to criticize the movie as I do to praise the movie. What I don't like seeing is "The only reason people like it is because it's dumb cinema" or "only true fans stay loyal to the original canon". That also applies to the other side of the aisle, "You only hate it because it's popular" or "True fans accept the new canon". It's silly, and there's no reason to shore up defenses, just like or dislike the movie however you wish and keep in mind that it's only one opinion among many.

J.

 

[Peter the Younger]

I don't see that the movie is beyond criticism at all. I understand that for those who didn't like the movie, some venting is to be expected, and there is always room for that. There is also room for others to disagree, and since those others are more numerous, well, it's going to feel like you're getting pounded sometimes. I don't see anyway of avoiding that - if I hold an opinion that represents 5% of viewers, and I make that opinion known to the other 95% on these boards, I'm going to get a torrent of rebuttals.

I do think that there is a small, very vocal minority who go beyond criticism, and drift toward the radical: "Death to false Trek," "This isn't My Star Trek," that sort of thing. I had my issues with VOY, but I didn't want to excommunicate it.

 

[Squiggy]

I discuss the film here because I had high hopes for it, I was very enthusiastic about it, I waited for it for a looooong while and thought it'd probably be the best Trek I've seen after TUC. It fell flat and I was emotionally invested so now I am disappointed. I want the sequels to be better, way better. If only the positive opinions and reviews are voiced, I'm afraid we'll only get more of the same.

More? Oh heavens no! What will we do with all that popularity and critical acclaim?!