Is Star Trek 2009 Beyond Criticism?
- Thread starter Overgeeked
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There would be a difference between hating on Voyager repeatedly after all these years. Star Trek 2009 has been at the theater less than one week, so there should be majorly differing opinions in this forum at least until the movie is out of theatres.
I mean if someone that disliked this film is still regularly visiting this forum and constantly hating on the film 6 months from now, that's a little odd, and antagonistic.
Actually, "Not your father's Trek" comes from Paramount, and was echoed in the media.
....I can provide links, if you like.
Why would I need links to prove this came from Paramount?
Since I was commenting on the whining over the phrase, and not the phrase itself, your reply was irrelevant.
Personally, I don't even see how one person could even make the claim that their own personal likes or dislikes effect whether the film is Star Trek for everyone else. Or is canon for everyone else.
That, to me, seems pretty egotistical. As if to say "My personal likes or dislikes completely negate and overrule anything the studio says and anything that would hold up in a court of law as legally Star Trek."
Takes a mighty big ego to say that!
JJ Abrams was paid to do that.
I think criticism is fine, but just remember this: Star Trek was Dead, and it had been dying since Voyager and ended with Nemesis & Enterprise. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Enterprise and Voyager at times....but both felt.....well.....lame. And while I love the TNG cast, Nemesis was a pretty bad movie that only some tng fans would like.
So I don't know if the "same-old-same-old" would have cut it anymore. I dont' know.
I'm just glad Star Trek is back. Is it "Your father's star trek?" No. But like I said, that died. This is, what it is, So if you want to jump on board for the next generation, hop on. If not, there's like 500 episodes on DVD!
Now if it's little things about the movie (plot holes, casting, jokes lens flare), so be it. But what movie DIDN'T have these things? I think *every* movie had some crazy thing that you had to overlook. I've seen Trek-11 five times now (ugh, I have way too many friends that wanted to go see this with me....) and every time it grows on me. Is it Kahn? First Contact? I don't know...time will tell...but I'm just glad to have Trek live on!
So I don't know if the "same-old-same-old" would have cut it anymore. I dont' know.
I'm just glad Star Trek is back. Is it "Your father's star trek?" No. But like I said, that died. This is, what it is, So if you want to jump on board for the next generation, hop on. If not, there's like 500 episodes on DVD!
Now if it's little things about the movie (plot holes, casting, jokes lens flare), so be it. But what movie DIDN'T have these things? I think *every* movie had some crazy thing that you had to overlook. I've seen Trek-11 five times now (ugh, I have way too many friends that wanted to go see this with me....) and every time it grows on me. Is it Kahn? First Contact? I don't know...time will tell...but I'm just glad to have Trek live on!
I loved the movie, but I do agree with what you're saying.
As much as I loved it, it wasn't perfect, and I'd love to discuss the little flaws and come up with solutions to them. But whenever someone does, it seems like they are slapped down immediately.
Again, I LOVED the movie. I am seeing it again tomorrow, and this weekend in IMAX.
But that doesnt mean we cant listen to opposing viewpoints and critique/discuss what worked and what didnt work.
I don't believe any film is beyond criticism, even ones that receive a lot of critical acclaim. "Star Trek" is no different. It is a movie I enjoyed a lot, but it is by no means a perfect movie.
I think the problem with many of the film's critics often state incorrect facts (such as the Prime universe being destroyed forever) or outright attacking fans who enjoy the film as not being "real" fans (note how many threads begin with "I was a fan since...").
Unfortunately this causes a strong reaction from those who enjoyed the film, especially if they combine the two elements above. Sometimes the reaction is just as strong and unfair as the post that prompted it.
There's a big difference between constructive criticism or emotional reaction and being flat out wrong or insulting other people on the board.
I think the problem with many of the film's critics often state incorrect facts (such as the Prime universe being destroyed forever) or outright attacking fans who enjoy the film as not being "real" fans (note how many threads begin with "I was a fan since...").
Unfortunately this causes a strong reaction from those who enjoyed the film, especially if they combine the two elements above. Sometimes the reaction is just as strong and unfair as the post that prompted it.
There's a big difference between constructive criticism or emotional reaction and being flat out wrong or insulting other people on the board.
Good lord, Infern0.
You're allowed to dislike this movie. You're not allowed to call people that do like the movie idiots that only like Transformers. (I hated Transformers.)
Show some maturity; defend your opinions. Don't gripe at other people for disagreeing with you when you directly insult them.
You're allowed to dislike this movie. You're not allowed to call people that do like the movie idiots that only like Transformers. (I hated Transformers.)
Show some maturity; defend your opinions. Don't gripe at other people for disagreeing with you when you directly insult them.
I personally am glad for those that hate this movie. They can go away and hide in their DVD's. Their stubborness to accept anything new, drove Trek into the ground.
The franchise has been reawakened for a new generation of fans, with new stories and new ideas, and I wouldn't want those elitest fans to ruin this franchise.
The franchise has been reawakened for a new generation of fans, with new stories and new ideas, and I wouldn't want those elitest fans to ruin this franchise.
Hey, Transformers was good! I think it was a very funny action movie. Was it deep. No. But it sure was fun.
First I just want to say that I did like the movie. But some fans are right. I'll play the devil advocate here. Is there a point to make Star Trek a typical summer action blockbuster movie? Somehow I feel the essence of Trek was more that this. I think Roddenberry had a little more in mind when he created Star Trek.
But, truthfully, I think it was the right move for this movie. But in the future, I wish the movies and franchise in general will have better depth on the drama, explorations, mystery and social commentary side.
Hell no.. everything is and should be open to criticism. Constructive criticism is a valuable tool for improvement and nothing is perfect and has room to improve.
There are two major problems i have with this movie.. the ice moon scene which is a very ham-fisted and forced way to get old Spock and Kirk together for story purposes and that a freshman officer gets command of a huge starship straight out of academy.
These are the two instances that really bothered me and could/should have been done differently but overall it was a very good movie.
I really pity the people who can't see past canon and cling to "old" Trek like it was a liferaft in a stormy sea. They are incapable of moving forward and accepting new things.. the old series are still there to enjoy, nobody is taking them off the market to make place for new Trek yet they act as if the world ended just because the Enterprise is built on Earth and not in an orbital dock.
There are two major problems i have with this movie.. the ice moon scene which is a very ham-fisted and forced way to get old Spock and Kirk together for story purposes and that a freshman officer gets command of a huge starship straight out of academy.
These are the two instances that really bothered me and could/should have been done differently but overall it was a very good movie.
I really pity the people who can't see past canon and cling to "old" Trek like it was a liferaft in a stormy sea. They are incapable of moving forward and accepting new things.. the old series are still there to enjoy, nobody is taking them off the market to make place for new Trek yet they act as if the world ended just because the Enterprise is built on Earth and not in an orbital dock.
*points to the above* Yeah, I agree with your devil's advocate position.
Part of the issue people don't conceive of is that names do have branding power, and they also have emotional power. If I got the most generic action movie and it was named Star Trek, something is damaged there. (Not saying this was necessarily it).
An example I have that's going to be important to me soon is Starcraft 2. I'd rather them not fuck up and do something really stupid to ruin what should be an amazing sequel. Why? Emotional attachment to the old game. Now, you could say, "it doesn't matter. Just enjoy it." Sure...but things exist in social context. You don't share your joy of Star Trek or Starcraft by yourself.
I want when I say Star Trek to mean something to me, to conjure up emotions and feelings that I can share with other people in an understood societal context. If it is possible that this is threatened, this is sad.
Still, generally, I've seen on this board people ignoring that. Our fandom is a societal context.
Part of the issue people don't conceive of is that names do have branding power, and they also have emotional power. If I got the most generic action movie and it was named Star Trek, something is damaged there. (Not saying this was necessarily it).
An example I have that's going to be important to me soon is Starcraft 2. I'd rather them not fuck up and do something really stupid to ruin what should be an amazing sequel. Why? Emotional attachment to the old game. Now, you could say, "it doesn't matter. Just enjoy it." Sure...but things exist in social context. You don't share your joy of Star Trek or Starcraft by yourself.
I want when I say Star Trek to mean something to me, to conjure up emotions and feelings that I can share with other people in an understood societal context. If it is possible that this is threatened, this is sad.
Still, generally, I've seen on this board people ignoring that. Our fandom is a societal context.
No. The film is not beyond criticism.
What shouldn';t be tolerated is the attitude on either side of "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE ALL WRONG!!!1!" which there has been a lot of.
I don't see what satisfaction it gives anyone to post and repost and repost and repost and repost that opinion again and again. We get it, and mostly the criticisms are thought through. We get it. I don't understand the insistence on the reposts. I've said I liked the film on a couple of threads, don't see a need to post more, just come to threads like this to see if there's something worthwhile added to the overall conversation. Apparently not, in this case.
I could launch into a bit of a rant here, but it's not the place and frankly no necessary.
You like it? Fine.
Just don't point and laugh at those who don't.
You don't like it? Fine.
Just don't gnash your teeth and growl at those who do.
My work here... is done. I hope.
What shouldn';t be tolerated is the attitude on either side of "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE ALL WRONG!!!1!" which there has been a lot of.
I don't see what satisfaction it gives anyone to post and repost and repost and repost and repost that opinion again and again. We get it, and mostly the criticisms are thought through. We get it. I don't understand the insistence on the reposts. I've said I liked the film on a couple of threads, don't see a need to post more, just come to threads like this to see if there's something worthwhile added to the overall conversation. Apparently not, in this case.
I could launch into a bit of a rant here, but it's not the place and frankly no necessary.
You like it? Fine.
Just don't point and laugh at those who don't.
You don't like it? Fine.
Just don't gnash your teeth and growl at those who do.
My work here... is done. I hope.
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