Poll Is Rey a Mary Sue?

[Jayson1]

The only character other than Hodo is child Anakain in TPM. Just a kid who can Pod race with adults. Wizards and true love come and take him away from his terrible life and finds out he is the chosen one. Also created Threepio a iconic character and will someday be Vadar and Obi One's friend and Luke and Leia's dad. Plus saves the day as a pilot in the first spaceship ever piloted. Jason

 

[Spot261]

This is something I've noticed a lot among those who attack the sequels. They seem to have a perfect, flawless, idealized version of the original trilogy in their heads that doesn't match reality.

Absolutely.

There are a lot of problems with those classic films which many of us are happy to overlook, like a wart on your spouses' nose or the fact your old dog farts after eating sausages.

They are part of childhood for many of us and we love them (one would imagine, given the context) but they are far from being flawless and profound masterworks which cannot and should not be challenged. On the contrary I've said before and maintain that if ANH were released tomorrow it would almost certainly be treated as a mediocre entry into the genre with nothing to mark it out beyond countless other sci fi franchises. The fact that it arguably blazed a trail in taking the Heroes Journey and putting it in space on such an epic scale (Flash Gordon might, of course, disagree) cannot be overstated as a factor in its' iconic status.

On the contrary the OT are at turns camp, shallow and ridiculous with some pretensions here and there at metaphors for real world spirituality and even social commentary. Even TESB is really mostly remarkable for taking chances and opting for the mother of all cliffhangers rather than wrapping its' internal story up with a neat little victory.

Mostly, though, they're just bloody good fun and have special effects so far ahead of their time they still hold up now.

 

[Jayson1]

I think The New Hope would actually be a big hit. Something like Orville or Stranger Things that embrace it's tropes instead of deconstruct them. It would also feel novel for going old school taking on Nazi Germany instead of Trump or the Patriotachy. Having only 2 women and no people of color would get some deserved flak but the overall experience would still make it a hit. Jason

 

[Campe]

They are part of childhood for many of us and we love them (one would imagine, given the context) but they are far from being flawless and profound masterworks which cannot and should not be challenged.

You hit on something that absolutely would be problematic for any Star Wars sequel: The nostalgia factor. We look at these original films through rose colored glasses because probably the vast majority of us saw these movies as kids. To us, they're important part of our development. Maybe Star Wars is the first movie we saw? Maybe we watched Empire with our dad who's not here anymore? Maybe we watched Jedi when we were sick? Maybe we watched each of them 1000 times? That makes it difficult to look at them or any sequels objectively without removing ourselves from the equation. But how do you do that when Star Wars has been so ingrained in our cultural consciousness? So, absolutely, its easy for us to look past the flaws, like FSM is doing in this thread. But like you suggest, @Cold Spot , they're not perfect. But that doesn't mean they're not just as important.

Plus we spent decades building up these characters in our head. We told story after story with action figures and writing fan fiction and reading the old EU, It makes sense that regardless the fate of these characters, it might not be as good as we think our fate for them is.

And no, I'll say for the billionth time, I don't think the sequels are as good as the original trilogy. But I'm still having so much fun with these movies! And isn't that the point?

 

[Turtletrekker]

She is a composite character combining Luke Skywalker with the strong female action hero cliche and the Jesus savior type ala Superman,John Connor etc. If SW has any Mary Sue it would be Admiral Holdo. Shows up out of nowhere and is put in charge with the blessing of a Iconic character. Used to make one of leads look bad. Serves no long term function for franchise then dies a hero death. Not sure if it counts since isn't a lead. She might just be a poorly executed antagist since the entire mutiny feels like filler. Something to cuttaway to from the main Luke/Rey stuff. Jason

Holdo didn't make Poe look bad, Poe did that all by himself.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Nah, she’s just boring.

Actually, she the only interesting one in the bunch.

 

[Spot261]

You hit on something that absolutely would be problematic for any Star Wars sequel: The nostalgia factor. We look at these original films through rose colored glasses because probably the vast majority of us saw these movies as kids. To us, they're important part of our development. Maybe Star Wars is the first movie we saw? Maybe we watched Empire with our dad who's not here anymore? Maybe we watched Jedi when we were sick? Maybe we watched each of them 1000 times? That makes it difficult to look at them or any sequels objectively without removing ourselves from the equation. But how do you do that when Star Wars has been so ingrained in our cultural consciousness? So, absolutely, its easy for us to look past the flaws, like FSM is doing in this thread. But like you suggest, @Cold Spot , they're not perfect. But that doesn't mean they're not just as important.

Plus we spent decades building up these characters in our head. We told story after story with action figures and writing fan fiction and reading the old EU, It makes sense that regardless the fate of these characters, it might not be as good as we think our fate for them is.

And no, I'll say for the billionth time, I don't think the sequels are as good as the original trilogy. But I'm still having so much fun with these movies! And isn't that the point?

Hear hear!

Note the added alliteration....

 

[BillJ]

I think The New Hope would actually be a big hit. Something like Orville or Stranger Things that embrace it's tropes instead of deconstruct them. It would also feel novel for going old school taking on Nazi Germany instead of Trump or the Patriotachy. Having only 2 women and no people of color would get some deserved flak but the overall experience would still make it a hit. Jason

A New Hope couldn't get made today with that kind of casting. It is of its time.

 

[Campe]

Hear hear!

Note the added alliteration....

Double alliteration! I’m impressed with your ingenuity in eliciting such indelible alliteration.

 

[Spot261]

Show off.

 

[Campe]

 

[fireproof78]

And no, I'll say for the billionth time, I don't think the sequels are as good as the original trilogy. But I'm still having so much fun with these movies! And isn't that the point?

For my money, absolutely that is what it is all about. Which is why it blows my mind that the Mary Sue conversation continues on two years later. To me, it is all about attempting to justify disinterest/apathy/dislike in a property that had largely been loved. But, for me, I already had that experience with the PT and EU, and I'm OK with not liking parts of SW.

 

[BillJ]

But I'm still having so much fun with these movies! And isn't that the point?

Obviously not. Did you miss the staff meeting?

 

[Campe]

Obviously not. Did you miss the staff meeting?

Damnit! New taking points!

 

[Awesome Possum]

You hit on something that absolutely would be problematic for any Star Wars sequel: The nostalgia factor. We look at these original films through rose colored glasses because probably the vast majority of us saw these movies as kids. To us, they're important part of our development. Maybe Star Wars is the first movie we saw? Maybe we watched Empire with our dad who's not here anymore? Maybe we watched Jedi when we were sick? Maybe we watched each of them 1000 times? That makes it difficult to look at them or any sequels objectively without removing ourselves from the equation. But how do you do that when Star Wars has been so ingrained in our cultural consciousness? So, absolutely, its easy for us to look past the flaws, like FSM is doing in this thread. But like you suggest, @Cold Spot , they're not perfect. But that doesn't mean they're not just as important.

Plus we spent decades building up these characters in our head. We told story after story with action figures and writing fan fiction and reading the old EU, It makes sense that regardless the fate of these characters, it might not be as good as we think our fate for them is.

And no, I'll say for the billionth time, I don't think the sequels are as good as the original trilogy. But I'm still having so much fun with these movies! And isn't that the point?

The prequels came out when I was a teenager and the thing I’ve learned from those slightly younger than me is that they feel the same way about them as most fans feel about the originals. The same will happen to the sequels. Hell, my earliest memories associated with Star Wars includes the Ewok movies. I truly love them.

 

[Campe]

The prequels came out when I was a teenager and the thing I’ve learned from those slightly younger than me is that they feel the same way about them as most fans feel about the originals. The same will happen to the sequels. Hell, my earliest memories associated with Star Wars includes the Ewok movies. I truly love them.

I was born six months before Empire came out. Doing the math that means I’m going to be 40 in about six weeks! (Gasp!) My first Star Wars memory is losing my Han Solo our the window of my mom’s Honda Accord. I was “freezing him in carbonite” by dropping him out of the window and catching him. Then I didn’t catch him. My parents say they heard a little voice from the back of the car cry “He’s gone!”

My second memory is seeing Jedi in the theater. I didn’t quite grasp the concept of cinema in 1983 so Yoda’s death didn’t quite resonate like it should have. I must have seen my first play not too long before that because I expected him to come out for curtain call.

 

[JD]

The prequels came out when I was a teenager and the thing I’ve learned from those slightly younger than me is that they feel the same way about them as most fans feel about the originals. The same will happen to the sequels. Hell, my earliest memories associated with Star Wars includes the Ewok movies. I truly love them.

I keep meaning to watch the Ewok movies again now that I'm an adult. I loved them as a kid, but I honestly have no idea how I'd feel about them now.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Mods, you should consider sticking this post, so that any time this nonsense comes up in the future, we can just direct them to this thread.

 

[Masiral]

The prequels came out when I was a teenager and the thing I’ve learned from those slightly younger than me is that they feel the same way about them as most fans feel about the originals. The same will happen to the sequels. Hell, my earliest memories associated with Star Wars includes the Ewok movies. I truly love them.

I'm one of those slightly younger people. ROTS was the first SW movie I saw in theaters. My younger sister definitely feels that way about the prequels, but for me, the sequels are my trilogy. I don't really understand why, but they just speak to me more - and I say that as a straight white male, happy to know that any daughters I might have will be able to see someone who looks like them wielding a lightsaber.

 

[Jayson1]

Maybe she is literally a Mary Sue. She doesn't know past. Born Mary Sue but parents didn't leave a note. The custom service guy who named Solo,now retired finds a baby in a basket on his front porch and says, How Cute! Aren't you a ray of sunshine! I am going to call you Ray that then got altered to Rey. Jason