Doesn't the Doctor in Voyager prove holograms are or, at least, can be sentient?
Is Quark a Pimp?
- Thread starter JeffinOakland
- Start date
Good question. If a member of the crew attacked the Doctor (probably retaliating for a particularly snarky remark), would they be brought up on charges, or just reset the Doctor and continue as before?
The Doctor is a sentient hologram through a combination of programming and development as a result of being active regularly for seven years. Yes, there are such things as sentient holograms, other examples being Moriarty on TNG and Vic Fontaine. Vic, like EMHs are programmed with a level of self-awareness that can develop into sentience under the right conditions. Moriarty is an example of holodeck silliness in that it apparently can create a sentient hologram if requested to. I'm assuming Quark didn't purchase his sex holograms sentient or potentially sentient (sentience/potential sentience probably drives the price up) and unless any of the patrons requested the computer to make them sentient, they likely aren't.
So, Quark is like the 23rd Century equivalent of an adult video store owner as far as the holodecks are concerned.
Um, yes, I guess that analogy works.
Quark is a scruples person - see "Business as Usual". Also, while the trafficking of Bajorans in "Wrongs Darker" took place long before Quark's time, remarkably we get no actual references to Quark having taken over such a business - or conversely, we get no indication that this Basso guy doing the trafficking would have played a Quark-like stationside role back in his day. Parallel lines of business, probably. After all, Cardassians aren't supposed to do mistresses, much less (?) prostitutes, while they are supposed to drink, play and dance at Quark's; for sheer reasons of deniability, Quark would do better by appearing "clean" and the supposed pimp in turn would not be able to partake in "clean" entertainment for the same reason.
He does requests, though. He could have created a Kira 'gram out of whole cloth easily enough in "Brigadoon", uh, "Meridian", but agreed to peeping with a camera for the customer instead, no doubt for the psychological angle. So, a video store owner who does some questionable custom shooting of his own. But in a world where everybody could do that, including all of his customers. (Basically, Quark sells VHS porn tapes in 2016 because his customers want the sleazy experience of VHS, even though they could do their own browsing for less money and effort.)
Timo Saloniemi
The holosuites probably clean themselves. Quark would insist, because otherwise he'd have to hire people (and pay them) to clean.
So it's okay to commit a brutal rape within the confines of a holodeck programme?Permissible and consequence free douchebaggery?
I suppose if you can shoot down western gunslingers or slay alien monsters then maybe yeah.But it's kinda icky and disturbing.
A thought,is killing a holographic being some sort of snuff movie?
I suppose if you can shoot down western gunslingers or slay alien monsters then maybe yeah.But it's kinda icky and disturbing.
A thought,is killing a holographic being some sort of snuff movie?
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I don't really see why committing rape in a video game would be any more disturbing than killing and maiming hundreds with a sword, as you can do in dozens of games. Of course. such games usually give you an excuse within the game world ('we have to defend ourselves or else the forces of evil will take over Fairy Country!'), but in my opinion, that excuse is null and void, as it is the player who chooses to immerse himself in that gameworld voluntarily.
So raping a holodeck character would in my eyes be about the same as having disturbing rape fantasies. This of course only under the provision that those holograms aren't any more conscious than characters in a video game today.
So raping a holodeck character would in my eyes be about the same as having disturbing rape fantasies. This of course only under the provision that those holograms aren't any more conscious than characters in a video game today.
I think it's less about the morality of the act itself, more about the implications. A non sentient hologram may have no rights, but living out a rape fantasy would tend to suggest some pretty disturbing things that the authorities would be well in their rights to look out for from a public safety perspective.
A fed starship run holodeck might well have safeguards built in and alert senior staff should a crewmember attempt to engage in such a scenario, somewhere less reputable might not. They may even specialise in that sort of thing, but it's hard to imagine Quark doing so, he does have some scruples.
A fed starship run holodeck might well have safeguards built in and alert senior staff should a crewmember attempt to engage in such a scenario, somewhere less reputable might not. They may even specialise in that sort of thing, but it's hard to imagine Quark doing so, he does have some scruples.
I could understand Starfleet wishing to guard their property to improper use, such as you describe.
But not on the grounds of a person having 'disturbing fantasies'. If you go that route, there's really no objection to compulsory chips in each person's head, to register -and guard against- just such a thing.
But not on the grounds of a person having 'disturbing fantasies'. If you go that route, there's really no objection to compulsory chips in each person's head, to register -and guard against- just such a thing.
Throughout ST, we see the Federation and Starfleet having dealings with various cultures that practice slavery, subjugation, racism, specism, greed and other things The Fed frowns on. Most often, they adopt a "we don't like it but we can't interfere" attitude about it. DS9's Quark's is the only instance I can think of where The Federation is enabling behavior it officially disapproves of so as to achieve a greater good. As far as enabling bad behavior: once you go down that rabbit hole, you can't suddenly decide, "we won't allow this behavior we disapprove of but we will allow this behavior we disapprove of."
You can. That's tyranny. It does work, you can do it. Wouldn't call it a good thing, though.
Not if you're going to maintain any credibility as The Fed.
How do you figure?
Having fantasies about a certain thing, or activity, or person, does not mean that one wants that thing to happen IRL. That's why they call it a fantasy.
Fantasies in general are harmless, and oftentimes can be a healthy psychological outlet. Especially on a holodeck, where one can actually ACT OUT fantasies without harm to any geniune living creature.
I'm assuming an attack on the Doctor would have to be an attack on the emitters or computer that generates him. Actually attacking the Doctor seems like a losing proposition, since he can adjust his photonic shape, mass, etc. Take a swing at him and you find yourself face to face with a mugatu-shaped Doctor who wants to know the nature of your emergency need for an ass-whoopin. Or, it *should* work that way, at any rate. Perhaps you could disrupt him with an energy weapon, but still, unless you do actual damage to the equipment generating him, he should come right back. So, at the very least, you'd be in trouble for damaging Starfleet property.
I think Quark probably *did* pimp his dabo girls during the Occupation, but acted as a "good pimp" in protecting them from clients, since as you mentioned, he does have some scruples, but also, allowing them to be damaged would have affected their continued ability to bring in money. I also think he probably stopped as soon as he got the holosuites and had the ability to simulate those services, both because of the aforementioned scruples, but also because the holosuite "prostitutes" would have wanted no money and would have complained less.
Oh, sorry for the double-post, but one more quick point I wanted to make: Barclay had simulations of several of the command crew that were modified to suit his own desires (which may or may not have been sexual, with the Deanna hologram). Geordi generated Dr. Brahms for professional reasons, but he also kissed her. In neither case, as far as we can tell, did the ship's computer tell on them.
Considering how replicators work the customers are eating/drinking that stuff.My sympathy goes out to Broik or whoever it is who has to clean the holosuites
I agree triumphant, my mention of Quark's scruples and computer oversight were intended more to address questions about rape fantasies rather than prostitution.
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